U.S. should import more skilled workers
In the coming years, the U.S. will need hundreds of thousands of good minds to fill positions in math and the sciences. Commentator Will Wilkinson says that may require us to look beyond our own shores.
Commentator Will Wilkinson (The Cato Institute)
More on Jobs, Commentaries, Immigration
TEXT OF COMMENTARY
Scott Jagow: A new report says that within seven years, the U.S. needs hundreds of thousands of new graduates in math and science fields. That's to keep up with the rest of the world.
But commentator Will Wilkinson says an advanced degree in science won't necessarily protect Americans from cut-throat competition.
Will Wilkinson: If you're a highly-skilled worker, America needs you. But if you've got a foreign passport, we probably won't let you in.
The U.S. issues only 65,000 H-1B visas for skilled workers each year and that's not very many. Senators McCain and Obama have both said they would support raising the cap. They acknowledge we need more skilled workers, and they're right. Yes, it would be good for innovation and growth and it would bring down the prices of goods created by skilled workers, but here's another reason you might not have thought of: Wage inequality.
Increases in wage inequality over the past few decades is primarily a story of the supply and demand of skilled labor together with the effects of technological innovation. Wage increases tend to track improvements in the productivity of labor and gains in productivity tend to be driven by innovations that help workers do more in less time. But in recent decades, technical innovation has increased the productivity of more highly-educated workers faster than it has for less-educated workers. These growing inequalities in productivity have helped create growing inequalities in wages.
But that's not the whole story. The American system of higher education produces skilled workers too slowly to keep up with the demand. This scarcity in the supply bids up the wages of the well-educated even more, further widening the wage gap. If we raised visa quotas on skilled labor, that would help bring supply in line with demand and reduce the wage gap between more and less skilled workers.
These days, almost everybody but their beneficiaries think agricultural subsidies are a lousy idea. They benefit a few already relatively wealthy American farmers and agribusiness firms to the detriment of poor farmers around the world. But H-1B visa restrictions are subsidies that benefit relatively rich domestic workers over their poorer foreign peers, and so it turns out many of us liberal-minded college grads are enjoying our own protectionist boost.
In this case, it seems the moral outrage is... well, we seem to be keeping it to ourselves.
Jagow: Will Wilkinson is a research fellow at the Cato Institute.
Comments
Comment | Refresh
From Loveland, CO, 04/29/2009
I realize now that my comment above incorrectly states that Ian Welsh, a Canadian blogger, is a Scottish Member of Parliament. I confused two different people. Ian's article is still worth reading.
From Chennai, 02/19/2009
Hi
If still US provide more H1 visa to foreign workers it leads US to lose more employment in the domestic population, this will definetely affect their economy as well. If the domestic workers lose the job they cant demand their needs, If they not demand they market capital will be affected. Finally economy will collapse, stock exchange go downwards curve and entire world will face the problem.
Thanks
Madan
From Huntsville, AL, 02/06/2009
If you feel that the U.S. should import workers, then what would you do if some(not one) of the imported workers can do your job better than you? Would you bow out and try to find work doing something else or fight for your job? Maybe you need to experience loosing your job to someone you want imported to the U.S. This country may have been built by slaves and ran by immigrants but we ( U.S.) citizens are keeping it built throughout good and bad times.
From coimbatore, ID, 09/17/2008
The Us must do more to attract foreign skilled workers if homegrown hi-tech knowledge industries are to flourish in an era of increasing globalisation.
From AL, 08/11/2008
Every one of you H1-B loving guys look like an over-educated pencil-necked geek. Get out and see the real world, and speak to everyday people-you might learn something.
From WA, 07/28/2008
The problem with the h1b program is that it is an indentured servent program that makes it immpossible for the american graduate to compete head to head for the same position as an h1b visa holder. From the employers prospective would you rather train an engineer who will work for you at below market rate with unpaid overtime for 6 years (h1b visa holder) or would you hire an american who would most likely not put in unpaid overtime and will find a higher paying job with one of your competitors in 3 years?
From Do the right thing for the US, CA, 07/22/2008
According to a February 9, 2007 release from the National Association of Colleges and Employers: National Averages Chemical engineering ($60,054) Computer engineering ($54,877) Electrical/electronics and communications engineering, ($54,599) Mechanical engineering ($54,587) Economics ($51,631 ) Computer science ($51,070) Finance ($47,905) Civil engineering ($47,145) Accounting ($46,508) Business administration/management ($43,523) Marketing/marketing management, including marketing research ($41,323) As far as being a TA and concluding that most of the students are poor in math. Do you ever stop to think that the student going to a TA for help are most likely not the strongest students.
07/22/2008
continued from below ...
students less than 25 category) are not good at math - specially differtial calculus which was a big part of the course. On the other hand, all Masters students who graduated around the same time i did are employed - americans and international. I earn around $80000 in sacramento and unless people feel that it is too low for a new grad I don't buy all that H1bs are affecting the job market. One thing i found intersting was that most of my friends would not move if there was a good opportunity in an another state whereas the international students would and made them look better. One thing I would say that the companies have become very specific in terms of the skills they expect and if I had not done 1 particualr course that helped me get this job I would had to continue my search for a job a little longer. This is not a h1b issue but our own - the conflict between the employee and the share holder.
07/22/2008
I welcome all the support against H1bs and immigrants. If America for once and for all decides to keep everyone out then people can go back to their countries and improve it. This way America is no longer this head-strong country. The ground situation is that not many students are taking up math and science. I have TAed for EE101 and seen that 90% of the students (specially the
07/19/2008
Maybe there was a time when the best and brightest were coming to this country. However, that is not the case any more. The H-1Bs that are now entering this country have average skills at best. We import cheap labor (H-1Bs) with average skills and at home drive the truly best and brightest engineering candidates to other careers. What we will be left with is a bunch of engineers with average abilities. The U.S. is going to lose it's technological lead BECAUSE of H-1Bs. The indigenous engineering infrastructure of this country is being undermined by corporate greed, ignorant columnists, and shameless groups like the Cato Institute who are mouth pieces for anyone willing to write a big enough check.
From Dallas, TX, 07/19/2008
I cannot believe that this piece aired when the economy is in the middle this massive economic downturn.
Corporate America should not be allowed to continue benefiting from selling their goods and services in this very lucrative $13 trillion economy but then saying that American workers are too expensive to hire.
I am all in favor of importing those who hold advanced PhD qualifications in science and engineering but the majority of H1-B workers are not exceptionally talented.
Corporate America is out to reduce the wages of the American worker who have invested many years and tens of thousands of dollars to get an education only to find the competition for jobs becoming more and more intense.
The US immigration system is flawed. The H1-B program should be eliminated and instead, people with advanced degrees (not merely Bachelor's degrees), should be able to migrate to the US under a skilled migration program.
07/18/2008
Like many other important issues (Iraq war, Climate Change, etc.), the issue of importing skilled workers is complex one. But, unlike many who commented on this story, I'd just like to politely put my two cents in.
In the same way US imports tons of materials and goods, American companies have to import talent to stay on top of the game. But what seems to be annoying many Americans is the importing of skilled people, but not importing of zillions of tons of materials and goods from all over the world at a huge cost to life on earth. Whether it is importing of people or of materials, the rationale behind it is economics.
By the way, I am not sure if we can call companies like Microsoft or GE or GM or P&G or Pfizer (the list goes on and on) 'American' just because they are headquartered in the US. The more appropriate term would probably be 'multi-national'. Now, what exactly is the problem when MULTI-NATIONAL companies that operate and sell products in dozens of countries import a small portion of their employees to the US??? Uncle Sam should savor a big slice of their $$$ cake, but should not allow the corporations to import people?!?
Yes, there is a lot of room for improvement in the American education system and the society, but is it wise to direct that furstration on H1-B visas and turn to protectionism? Isn't that diametrically opposite to what the US has been preaching to the world since decades? Isn't free-market capitalism one of the pillars of America and its prosperity?
The number of visas to be granted each year is certainly debatable, but the concept behind it is not sinister, as some people seem to be imagining.
07/18/2008
Any skilled worker who works for an American company and is capable of developing technological advances, perhaps the kind that earn U.S. patents...it's a no-brainer. Societies are only as good as their tools will allow.
Strict laws and regulations didn't help the Titanic as it was sinking! What is going to save our economy..., now that we realize how addicted we are to foreign oil, only market forces and technological innovation.
When those tech-jobs go over seas, so does the knowledge along with the dollars, which end up benefiting foreign interests.
EX: What if Michael Jordan had been born in another country...? Would we have let him in? Right!
07/17/2008
Will makes a great argument. The hostile reception, as indicated by the comments, should be unsurprising. If people actually understood how much immigration has historically benefited us then we wouldn't have the type of protectionist immigration laws we have. The comments only confirm that people only dislike protectionism when it keeps them on the outside. If less protectionism (ostensibly) harms them, then they feel threatened. If the borders were opened one might see a drop in wages, but considering there would be a correlative drop in prices, it's doubly there would be an overall harm, and most likely considerable benefit. It's likely that it would also create an increase in jobs and new opportunities with more rapid development of technology.
I think the primary reason why Americans don't pursue as many science and engineering degrees is simply because they're just not as attractive, not as sexy to college students, who want to study in the humanities, which they find far more interesting and which generally have more lax grading standards and easier classes. The US is fortunately wealthy enough as an economy and a country that it can afford to expensively educate youngsters in realms of knowledge they have no use for. This is a good thing. Why else pursue wealth except for such luxuries?
In the end, all I can say is I'm sorry you've gotten so many hostile comments. It's not these people are stupid, just ignorant of economics, which can at times be a fairly counter-intuitive discipline and one which few students are exposed to. Thanks for the encouraging comments. Hope they get spread around more.
From Hopewell Junction, NY, 07/17/2008
I was appalled at Mr. Wilkinson's statement that the “American system of higher education produces skilled workers too slowly to keep up with demand.” I am familiar with numerous "technical" graduate programs in this country, both in the past and present, and none have had any shortage of foreign graduate students. If our education system has enough space to educate foreign graduate students, why then is it unable to produce more American students to fill the demand for these well paid technical jobs? Certainly, American students are no less interested in having well paid careers than their foreign peers.
Clearly, not enough American students are being admitted to American technical graduate programs to keep them full. Our vast system of undergraduate colleges and universities are not turning out enough students that are both interested in and qualified to compete for these graduate school openings. It is relatively easy to identify potential causes for this shortage. Many of our college-bound high school students graduate with inadequate math and science skills to perform well in college programs; most continue to fall even farther behind in college with no chance to catch up. Some very qualified college students are either unwilling or unable to put in the four to six years that it will take to earn a Ph.D. For some people, it may be the result of debt incurred for their undergraduate education. For others, it may be the delay in starting a family, or the unwillingness to start a family on the poverty-level graduate student stipend. And for still others, it may be an unwillingness to invest another four to six years of study in a career path without a more certain payout. In case Mr. Wilkinson hasn’t noticed, starting jobs in these fields don’t pay all that well and older workers who have achieved higher pay levels are favorite targets in corporate downsizing.
If American cannot encourage enough students to train for the so-called well paid careers now, what chance would we have after the wage scale was forced down by a flood of foreign technical workers, at least some of who have been subsidized in their education by foreign governments? Importing new technical workers to the detriment of our own seems to be a path to a new government program – all students left behind! Perhaps if we import enough skilled foreigners, we won’t need to educate any more of our own, and then we can save money on taxes!
Or just maybe we could work on improving our educational system?
From Alexandria, VA, 07/17/2008
The problem with the politically-correct seeming position that we should share the wealth though H1B visas and outsourcing is that countries with unsustainable levels of population are creating a tide of humanity willing to work for wages that we in the developed world cannot ever compete with. If we destroy careers in engineering and computing in this country, it will not result in any improvement to the average net worth in countries like India, where the population still continues to increase precipitously.
From Alexandria, VA, 07/17/2008
Another gem from the Cato Institute, which exists only to further corporate profits at the expense of everything else - sustainability, morality, sense, etc. It seems that 'wage disparity' is a problem for the Institute when the people 'benefiting' are not those in the corner offices. And the solution? Certainly not to increase the wages of the lowest paid! Instead, make everyone poor! Not to go too far off topic, but the real problem with the P.C. position of the desirability of spreading the 'wealth' through H1B visas is population growth. Countries like India and China have increased their populations to levels that their environments can be sustain - and they are not slowing down. Those of us in the developed world cannot compete with the tide of humanity that results from unsustainable population growth. Outsourcing or insourcing is not likely to improve the average net worth of people in developing nations as their populations continue to increase - but it has the capacity to destroy the middle class here in the U.S.
From Salisbury, MD, 07/17/2008
I have a master's degree in computer science and an MBA on the accounting track, and I'm delivering pizzas. Maybe if I'd moved to India I would have a better chance at getting a job.
From Hunterdon, NJ, 07/17/2008
I could not believe Marketplace aired this piece. Will Wilkinson is clueless, and has no data to base his delusional ideas on. According to this idiot, the US cannot graduate engineers fast enough, so wages are too high and workers must be imported. If that was true, every new US engineering grad would have a job waiting for them, and unemployment among experienced engineers would be zero. The reality is new graduates are struggling to get that first job, and many experienced engineers get laid off and cannot find work. Outsourcing, age discrimination, and cutting wages and benefits are de-facto policies of American corporations. The H-1B program only caters to this.
07/17/2008
If you give weight to arguments about inequality , then you should be in favor of more immigration--this is what Wilkinson is arguing. The greatest inequality is inter-nation, not intra-nation inequality.
The idea is that just because someone is born in a poor country like India doesn't mean that they should be doomed to poverty for the rest of their lives. People, as human beings, have the same moral standing, regardless of where they were born.
Most anti-immigration people are arguing "I think Americans have a greater moral claim to a wealthy lifestyle." Or more charitably "Sure, I care about the world's poor, but not if helping them means competing with them in the labor market"! Pretty pathetic.
From Geneva, IL, 07/16/2008
Does Will Wilkinson know he is lying, or does he beleive he is telling the truth, or both? His solution for pay disparity between lower class and the middle class is to due away with the middle class. By an large the pay disparity is largest at the top of the corporate ladder. I doubt that he means the us should import foreign corporate officers. If he beleives that the payroll "savings" for importing labor is going to go to the lower class then he is a fool.
From Chicago, 07/16/2008
The whole H-1B is a joke - a rape of the American tech professional!
Some of you might know the LCA's (labor Condition Applications) are public record. One can access these Applications from the DOL, www.h1b.info and www.zazona.com ( temporarily down) websites.
Interesting checking the databases on H-1b appplications. You never know what you might unearth....
Months ago I found an H-1B application for a store manager of a Jimmy John's fast-food restuarant. Guess the Franchise is need of one of the best/brightest skilled professionals to run the restuarant.
And don't forget Fashion Models qualify for those H-1B visas! And you thought fashion models were just pretty faces!
From Dayton, OH, 07/16/2008
For anyone interested in proposed solutions, I suggest you visit the IEEE USA web site (www.ieeeusa.org) and read their stance on reforms to the H-1B situation. As an engineer (with the privelage of being a US citizen), I don't feel threatened by competition in the job market. However, the logic of importing more people on temporary work visas (without a similar employment-driven fast track to citizenship) seems like a short-term "market" solution rather than a means to America's long term economic success. Today's commentary seemed analagous to arguing "America's solution to high energy costs should be: import more foreign oil." Instead, let's make more American's interested in math/science careers and encourage skilled foreign workers to stay here as citizens.
07/16/2008
Previous responses have already done a great job of ripping this commentary (and alarmist report) to shreds, so let me just add a couple of points.
First, the current cap on H-1B is actually above 85,000. That's the 65,000 mentioned in the article plus another 20,000 for applicants who claim a Masters degree or better (the industry group Compete America lobbied heavily for this one), plus exemptions for education institutions.
Second, one of the reasons the current cap is being hit is that the majority of visas are going to the large bodyshops such as Wipro, Tata, and Infosys. These businesses make money by displacing Americans with cheaper indentured labor. They offer low salaries and create no jobs.
Changing the allocation of H-1B visas from a lottery to an auction would allow those employers who are willing to pay to import a "skilled" worker to get their visas without raising the cap (in fact it could be lowered). Let's see Wipro stay in business if they had to pay their contractors a living wage.
From Denver, CO, 07/16/2008
I would love to see the H1-B program opened wide open. If you have a college level degree in a technical field, the US should welcome you with open arms. The problem is Will is arguing that increases in wages are simply because of a lack of demand. But if the demand is really that tight, why do US companies continue to nit pick over candidates who have the exact experience they're looking for? If there's such a shortage why aren't more places hiring software engineers flexible about the exact program language experience of a candidate? The same nit-picking is rampant in other engineer fields, also. Seems to me if this "shortage" was such a big deal employers would be less picky.
From Spanish Fort, AL, 07/16/2008
Perhaps, if our government, provided an adequate living stipend, as well as paid for tuition and books, based on academic merit, we would have many more students pursuing both undergraduate and graduate technical degrees. Many, if not most, foreign countries do just that. But here in the USA we expect poor and middle class students to somehow manage that on their own. I made straight A's in high school, was valedictorian, and scored in the 99th percentile on every achievement test. I heard the mantra every day, "Keep this up and you can go to any college you want!" Total hogwash! Even with scholarships, student loans, and a 30 hour per week job, I lived on two meals a day, had holes in my shoes, no transportation, no phone, and no medical care. I badly wanted to study physics and engineering, but could not spare 4 hours per lab per course on top of study time and work time. If America wants home grown engineers and scientists, she should invest in them.
From Houston, TX, 07/16/2008
I disagree with Will Wilkinson's commentary on H-1B labor. There are too many foreign engineers taking jobs way from U.S. engineers. American corporations use the "labor shortage" and H-1B as a lame excuse not to hire domestic talent.
Gary Burt
unemployed Chemical Engineer
From Dallas, TX, 07/16/2008
H1-B visas should be issued and family immigration should hat right now. Imagine unskilled workers who are coming in as relatives of citizens and permanent residents are the real burden. Does anyone understand how much it costs and what a time consuming process it is to bring one worker on a H1-B ? What is happening to the billions of dollars that are being collected in H1-B fees by the DOL and USCIS ? Not to mention the billions they pay into the Social Security System though they have no claims to it or any unemployment benefits ? Are people aware how expensive it is to sponsor one candidate and in fact my personal observation has been that h1-B folks are more competent and better paid plus cost a lot to process and retain. These are specialized jobs for which no competent American exists. Many who have qualifications and are not able to get a job may be facing this due to their attitude, obsolete skills or technology or unable to pass background checks. If H1-B visas remain at curent level it will only increase outsourcing. Many entreprenuers and folks who generated billions of dollar in wealth entered the country as a Student or as a beneficiary of the H1-B program there are facts around it.
From Atlanta, GA, 07/16/2008
I'm surprised no one else agrees with Will. who among us doesn't shop around for the best price. If the same stereo costs $20 less at Best Buy than at Circuit City, where are you going to buy it? Do you care about the employees at Circuit City? Why not? Who benefits from the lower prices? You do. What if virtually the same server can be bought from Dell (in TX) that can be bought from HP (in CA) but for $200 less? Where will you buy the server? Would your answer change if you lived in CA? A lot of you are saying it has nothing to do with supply and demand, that it's all about price. Well, price has a lot to do with demand and supply. In fact, price is the reflection of supply and demand. If you restrict the supply of a good or service, you distort its price. In this case, by restricting the supply of foreign workers, you distort the price of the service they provide upward, forcing everyone else to pay more. You subsidize those that would compete against them at the expense of everyone else.
From Chicago, IL, 07/16/2008
The DOL states in their Strategic Plan for 2006-2001: "...H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker."
This in not competition. The H-1b visa-hiring program never requires employers to consider local talent: US citizens and green card holders.
Allowing this type of employer behavior means that no matter how talented, no matter how many degrees we have, the American Dream of opportunity, merit, and the pursuit of happiness will remain behind the very real barrier of employment discrimination.
www.brightfuturejobs.com
07/16/2008
"Increases in wage inequality over the past few decades is primarily a story of the supply and demand of skilled labor"
since when is the cato institute an advocate of socialism?
wasn't the cato institute founded by Charles Koch, a liberatarian who believes firmly in letting supply and demand determine price?
or does cato only believe in free markets when workers are on the losing end?
From West Chester, PA, 07/16/2008
Mr. Wilkinson's argument that we should attack wage inequality in this country by issuing more H-1B visas to foreign workers is the silliest argument I've ever heard on Market Place. Rather then increase the wages of the less skilled by increasing their skill level, he wants to reduce the wages of skilled workers, by importing highly trained workers from other countries. These other countries have spent scarce resources to train those workers for jobs badly needed in their own economies. In effect Mr. Wilkinson's proposal amounts to the short sighted suggestion we source education to other economies. Why should America bother to educate its own citizens if we can import educated workers more cheaply then growing them at home? After all, it takes just as long to educate a PhD in India or China as it does in America. [And we don't have to spend any tax money to school these imports]
From duluth, MN, 07/16/2008
7/16/2008: I had to shake my head as I listened to your Marketplace report this morning. For 25 years, I've watched as my husband, who has a Ph.D. in chemistry, struggles to find steady work in his chosen field -- a soft-money research fellowship here, a teaching position there. He has been forced to look outside chemistry to make a living, and I live with his disappointment every day. Please don't tell me there's a shortage of highly skilled workers.
From Loxahatchee, FL, 07/16/2008
You're damn right! I'm actually in agreement with the proposal to selectively increase immigration limits for high-value occupations and organizations. Having these Phds and other professionals immigrate will not threaten me or my career, they will help grow the country and allow America to play a leading role in the inevitable efficiencies to be gained from planetary integration.
Fareed Zakaria makes somewhat the same case in his new book. America has exhausted its natural resources and we are in debt for generations to come. China is in the ascendancy.
America's survival depends on attracting the world's best and brightest individuals to live here. We are not animals who have to fight over a piece of carcass. If ever a country was founded with the potential to unite the world, it was the United States.
An attitude of exclusion is not the American tradition. Not unless you agree with hillbilly intermarriage. The paranoid and provincial reactions to this story are the old Pat Buchanan politics, extreme and unwarranted. They will not stand in the way of inevitable progress, whether it comes by choice or by necessity.
From Crystal Lake, IL, 07/16/2008
Will needs to get his facts straight. Engineering and Science compensation has been falling since the 1970's inspite of the large increases in productivity he mentions.
I find it very odd too, that he finds the income disparity between skilled and unskilled workers so onerous. Remember wage earners are also consumers. A consumption based economy cannot survive if everyone is too poor to buy anything.
Is Will not aware of the enormous compensation differences between management and workers? CEO pay is now over 400 times that of the lowest paid employee. That number is, to me, revolting. Does that bother Will, too?
Maybe we need to raise visa quotas for CEOs.
Taken to its logical extreme slavery is the end of the cheap labor game. Is that what Will is advocating?
From Mishawaka, IN, 07/16/2008
One solution to ensure that foreign skilled worker compensation does not undercut native skilled worker compensation is to set up an auction system for H-1B visas. The current market compensation would serve as the minimum allowable bid. A company that wished to employ a foreign skilled worker, would have to offer a bid that was at least as high as the minimum allowable bid. With the limited number of H-1B visas for foreign workers, companies would need to offer better compensation than the going rate in order to have a chance at hiring the foreign skilled worker. Each auction would take place within a well-defined occupational category. This would drive skilled worker compensation up, not down.
From Dallas, TX, 07/16/2008
Why are you giving time to the corporate shiil -The Cato Institute, and promoting these lies?
Not one person agrees with the need for H1-B's. Prior to the last time an increased passed, members of congress were told there was not going to be a vote and went home . a Few members stayed and it passed secretly.
This about supply and demand. Increase supply, pay lower wages. Why don't you interview Jim Matloff or some of the displaced workers whose complaints and plight is dismissed as "anedotecal".
Lets do the math 65,000 * 6 (years the visa is valid) = 390,000 . So 200,000 mobile people doing what you do, stragetically placed in your market area, who get paid $20.00 hour brings YOUR salary to - guess what ?
Keep the lies and misinformation out of the media unless you are also prepared to present the other side. If I wanted the corporate dogma, I would listen to the television news
From Carlsbad, CA, 07/16/2008
While I normally agree with the free market principles espoused by CATO, as a victim of insufficiently metered immigration for all reasons, I disagree. In the year 2000 when IT salaries were 20% higher than now (in spite of the dollar being worth 20% more) there were no ill effects on the economy. Workers in every field found their wages rising, and employers treated their employees great. And corporations were prospering in spite of paying well. Today? C'mon? The reason things are much worse: hundreds of thousands of H1-b workers who have lowered salaries in real terms by about 50%. Would Mr. Wilkinson like to go back to his 1997 salary for principle?
From Kansas City, MO, 07/16/2008
I worked for an internet startup targeting ip-addresses with billions of selective banner ads. Most of the others in this skilled market were Chinese citizens. However, their presence did not depress my wage. Instead, the market for statistical design strategists is quickly becoming more specialized. The more foreign skilled workers, the more the skilled market specializes and the higher the wages rise. If specialization runs faster than the supply of skilled foreign workers, skilled workers actually benefit with higher wages. If specialization does not keep up, then, of course, the wages of skilled workers would fall. So far it appears that companies are getting more and more picky about getting exactly the right background (e.g. specialist in Bayesian decision trees with experience in marketing). It looks like wages of at least some highly skilled workers will actually benefit from the specialization make possible by more foreign skilled workers.
From Chicago, 07/16/2008
It is all about cheap [foreign] labor
and "HOW NOT THE HIRE AN AMERICAN WORKER" !
Want more?
then you need to watch this video:
www.youtube.com/programmersguild
and why aren't the presidential candidates, most in congress discussing the above?
OOOH.. Oh I know. Too busy selling out American workers to the cheap labor lobby.
For some music:
www.madnamerica.com
07/16/2008
I've got to say the most horrifying part of the article was not the baseless arguments resulting in the importation of cheap labor to reduce salaries for skilled workers, it was that Obama and McCain are behind increasing the H1-B cap! Now who am I going to vote for?
From St. Paul, MN, 07/16/2008
I amy beyond sick of the so-called "experts" that NPR dredges up for this kind of "informed opinion." Characters who, six months ago, told us that the economy was strong because "home ownership" was at an all-time high. Do you know the meaning of the term "ownership?" To a sentient person, it would mean debt-free. "Borrower-ship" is not ownership, dumbass.
We have been cursed with Marketplace bozos who claim that federal and state examiners would not improve securities honesty, corporate competence, or workplace safety. The argument was that CEOs are paid millions to do these jobs, so low paid examiners would have no chance of knowing the business better than their highly paid corporate opponents. Bull! If you can find a CEO who knows anything about the day-to-day operation of the company he is mismanaging, you'll have found a corporate unicorn.
Now, the next Marketplace dimbulb claims that driving down the salaries of the few middle class tech jobs will be good for low income workers by adding company to their misery. Where do you find these nitwits? Our education system has been devalued, mismanaged, and kidnapped by the superstitious right and the inbred inherited rich and you want to make up for that crime by importing more illegal labor? Perfect. Brilliant. Why not by Nero a new fiddle while you're at it?
Here's an idea. Only accept business commentary from people who have actually held a job (not in phantasy fields like "business mismanagement, economics, or marketing, but go for engineering and customer service experts), created a successful business from scratch, or someone who actually "turned around" a business without scorching the earth under its employees.
Personally, I don't want to hear another word from one of your inbred trust fund brats. In fact, possessing a trust fund should be solid evidence of unfamiliarity and incompetence in the real world.
07/16/2008
I think you've got it mixed up, Will. I liked the little dig at liberals at the end of your commentary. Actually, I didn't, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm one of those educated liberals who happens to like a little "protectionism", and there's no hypocrisy with me. I'd like to see some for less skilled workers as well. It's conservatives who are hypocrites in this regard. They want less "protectionism", but they are not outraged over the limits on HB-1 visas. Your little dig was way off mark.
From Elmwood, IL, 07/16/2008
Mr. Wilkinson's initial premise seems to be "Pay Inequality" as though no matter what your skills, capability, work ethic, etc. You should be paid the same as everyone else. And then he goes on to suggest a way to create that situation by seeking out good paying jobs and finding a way to destroy their value through the political process.
I don't consider myself a protectionist because globalization does increase the overall wealth of our nation. Unfortunately the system is set up so that a vast majority of that wealth goes to a small group at the very top. We need to change that but not through draconian taxes on the rich or artificial job market adjustments using H1 Visas. Corporate America has long complained that they can't find the skilled workers they need..." Let me finish that sentence for them "At the price they are comfortable paying."
I would suggest we not increase the H1 Visa limits because it will not only impact the current work force but create a disincentive for students to invest in the difficult fields of study which are the math and sciences.
We also need to find a way to tax imports directly and funnel the proceeds into infrastructure that will give American workers the ability to compete and thrive in the global market. Improvements in: Education, Transportation, Information Technology and Property Rights are all areas that would improve the Standard of Living for all Americans and not just the few at the top.
Mr. Wilkinson's cause would be better served if he focused on how to lift up the standard of living of those he feels are on the back side of wage inequality instead of focusing on how to harm those that he feels are flourishing unjustly.
From Los Angeles, CA, 07/16/2008
Cato is asking you to agree to your own impoverishment.
These weaklings are peddling fear and corporate protectionism. "Else they will compete against us" -- so Cato's idea is to just quit, concluding we have already lost.
Read between the lines, Cato is saying you should step aside, encourage the non-immigrant to take your job, hyper-inflate your housing costs, raise your kids and sleep with your spouse.
Cato, "Too many nations are already prosperous -- we can't allow any more of that."
From Sacramento, CA, 07/16/2008
My questions to Congressman Lungren, pending a response, are here:
http://www.programmersguild.org/docs/congressman_lungren_7july2008.html
Perhaps Will would like to give a shot at responding.
From Sacramento, CA, 07/16/2008
If I understand "research fellow" Will's reason for wanting to increase the H-1b visa, it is to reduce the "wage inequity between skilled and unskilled workers in the USA - by intentionally driving down the wages of skilled workers? Well first of all IT wages have been dropping for the past 8 years, adjusted for inflation. LCA filings for H-1b workers are on average $55,000 per year - is that the wage ceiling that CATO is trying to set for U.S. professional workers - by manipulating the "free market" supply/demand forces (within the USA) that would set wages. IF tech wages started to rise again, THEN more students would enter the profession.
My Congressman Lungren wants to raise the H-1b Cap due to a labor shortage. I've challenged his office to NAME ONE job that is unfilled in this district due to the current H-1b cap. So far no response. NOT ONE!!! Check the classified ads in your area - how many tech jobs are listed? What is the salary? Are there ANY "entry-level" for new grads?
- Kim Berry, president www.programmersguild.org
From Fort Collins, CO, 07/16/2008
The real story is that the proliferation of H1B visas, outsourcing, hostility to organized labor and other practices have decoupled wage gains from productivity. In Scottish MP Ian Welsh's analysis: (http://firedoglake.com/2008/07/13/there-was-a-class-war-the-rich-won-it/) "There Was a Class War. The Rich Won It", facts and graphs show that increased productivity has not been returned to the workers as higher wages.
Why do you let people lie to us?
From Takoma Park, MD, 07/16/2008
A shortage of highly skilled workers? Are you kidding me?
I have a Ph.D. in the biological sciences and recently escaped from the postdoctoral "training" purgatory that so many Ph.D. level workers find themselves in. Even with a Ph.D. we run into the conundrum of "well, we won't hire you without Industry experience" from the likes of Genentech...who then run whining to congress about how they need to import more Ph.D.s. Trust me, we have a giant untapped pool of Ph.D. level talent in the biological sciences that for some reason Industry just doesn't want to see. Having made the transition from Academia to Industry myself, I can tell you that it takes less then 6 months to learn "Industry culture". We don't need to raise the cap on visas...the Biotech Industry needs to rethink their recruitment strategies.
From Biddeford, ME, 07/16/2008
The numbers do not bear out Mr. Wilkinson's arguments. The Center for Immigration Studies has a well sourced report available online that refutes every single part of Mr. Wilkinson's case. The summary reads, "As the annual H-1B quota gets exhausted, industry groups claim that the huge number of H-1B visa applications demonstrates that more H-1B visas should be available. However, comparing the number of H-1B visas in their largest represented occupations (computers and engineering) to the number of jobs created in those occupations presents a different picture of the H-1B visa program. This study examines the relationship between the number of H-1B visas and job growth. It finds that the number of H-1B visas approved in these fields greatly exceeds any reasonable number reflected by economic demand." ( http://www.cis.org/node/222 ) H1-B visas are about driving down labor costs in the last place that good wages even exist in this country. I, as an American, don't mind competing with foreign workers if the playing field is level. But the tax breaks for foreign investment that move jobs overseas are a problem that are helping to fuel massive trade deficits that are simply unsustainable. There can't be a service economy without something for it to service. Revision of tax policy and trade agreements are necessary to restore the American economy, not more foreign workers in an effort to deflate wages in the face of 10% inflation (includes food and fuel.)
From Dallas, TX, 07/16/2008
Mr. Wilkinson's commentary is a pathetic excuse for the failings of our parental and educational society. Today, many students do not see the need for an education because they see that the "state" will take care of them if they whine enough.
The work ethic has disappeared in the smoke of our destroyed family and family values. Parents and children do not eat meals together and discuss events of their day. Many single family parents do not have time to guide their children in the values that once were held in high esteem. It is more important for them to be friends than parents. They do not participate in what is happening in their children's school and they certainly do not demand high educational standards.
Progress is great but at the expense of our future scholars, scientists, philosophers and educators is pathetic. When school children or young adults cannot find, on a map, Iraq or Iran or know the name of the states around the one they live in, it is time to re-evaluate who we are, where we are going and who will get us there. If we are to be included as one of the leaders of the world, we need to education those future leaders.
From broomfield, CO, 07/16/2008
Is there even the slightest evidence that an increase in productivity increases wages? I mean for anyone but the CEO of course. Decreasing "inequity" by attacking the last few middle-class jobs around but not doing anything about CEO compensation is a bad joke.
From Chicago, 07/16/2008
Can you handle the truth???
Do you want the truth of the H-1B, skilled worker issue?
then go to www.eng-i.com/E-Newsletters.htm
and for the real shocker!
www.youtube.com/programmersguild
It is all about cheap labor !
For more:
www.noslaves.com
www.brightfuturejobs.com
www.madnamerica.com
From Ashton, MD, 07/16/2008
Mr. Wilkinson's commentary is filled with inaccuracy and disinformation, and shame on Market Place for not presenting more accurate information to your listeners.
As worker productivity increased and maintained a consistently high level, congressional representative from both parties sold the American economy to the highest corporate campaign contributor and shipped good American jobs abroad in the form of trade agreements, such as NAFTA, for cheap labor free of health, labor, and environmental constraints.
Written by corporate lobbyists, these same trade bills deliberately destroyed local agricultural economies such as Mexico, sending the impoverished fleeing to our shores in despair.
It was a win-win for corporations. They controlled economies here and abroad and these poor immigrants were cheap labor that undermined wages here.
The impoverished American communities, having lost jobs and revenues for education and infrastructure from these now-closed factories, fill the residents with despair and in turn, now fill our prisons.
The solution is to rescind NAFTA and every other congressional betrayal, impose safety, labor, and environmental laws on imports that will bring those jobs back and keep them here. Then we need to reinvest in our schools to provide the skilled workers for our jobs, and stop destroying similar economic opportunities for workers in their own countries so they have no need to go anywhere else.
This winning formula made this country economically vibrant and strong without harming anyone, except the greedy corporations and amoral elected officials who supported these trade bills and who should all be replaced as they come up for re-election.
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