College Board studying 8th grade PSAT
You're never too young to get an ulcer. The College Board is planning to roll out a new college assessment exam for eighth graders in 2010. Marketplace's Janet Babin reports.
Girl studying (iStockphoto)
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10/22/2008
I think it's a great idea.
From Raleigh, NC, 08/20/2008
How sad that Marketplace felt the need to denigrate skilled craftspeople in an otherwise worthy story about preparing young people for success in college. People who know how to make things and take pride in their ability to make things WELL are the backbone of a productive economy and essential members of healthy families. Implying that their skills and knowledge are somehow less valuable than those acquired in an "academic" classroom is insulting and, frankly, ridiculous. I have an MBA and years of professional experience, yet I am grateful every day that I learned to cook, sew and manage a budget in home ec class. I think I am the only one in my circle of "career women" who can even thread a sewing machine. I wish I could have taken woodshop, too! We would all be better off if all our students had the opportunity to explore academic subjects and hands-on skills.
From Austin, TX, 08/20/2008
Taking a standardized test like the PSAT in middle school is not a new concept. The Duke Talent Identification Program has been around for 29 years. Duke TIP is a program that idetifies academically talented students in late elementary or middle school. Students identified by this program take the ACT or SAT as a 7th grader. As a 7th grader, I was identified by the TIP program and took the SAT then. That doesn't make me a genius or any better than anyone else, but it does show that this sort of testing won't ruin a kid's life and maybe it will make them feel smart when they find out they get to take a test that is really for big kids. All in all, it does give you kind of an advantage about what to expect when you enter a test scenario like the SAT. In the 7th grade I forgot my calculator, let's just say when I took the PSAT and SAT for real, I didn't make that mistake again.
From Winston-Salem, NC, 08/20/2008
More testing? No thanks. How about some learning? Our children need to learn to think, not just regurgitate facts. Oh yeah, woodshop is pretty good also. By the way, the single best thing parents and schools could do to help students is a significant increase in reading, at all ages. It's easy, not painful, develops creativity and concentration. Win, win, win.
From Nashville, TN, 08/20/2008
As an educator, I think we are over testing our students. Plus, there is something to be said about requiring students to take a high-stakes standardized assessment to enter college, a place that caters to their individuality. I applaud The National Center for Fair and Open Testing for offering an alternative point of view to a nation crippled by high-stakes assessments.
From Philadelphia, PA, 08/20/2008
I took great offense at Ms. Babin remark about ending up in Wood Shop. It shows how little respect she has for tradesmen’s work and unfortunately she has now perpetuate the myth that people who work with their hands are at the bottom of the academic rung. In my experience as a white collar worker, most people who just use their brains are completely out of touch with the world and on reliant on everyone else to do the actually work. Most people I know who have a vocational trading are smart, have a great deal of common sense and contribute a enormously to their community.
I think she owes an apology for her remarks and she should follow up with a report on the important of vocational training. College is not for everyone and thank god for that because then we as American would have absolutely no skills in actually making a product and fixing what we already own. These skilled people can help us reduce waste by repairing what we use and improving on what we already own.
I hope she never has to get her car repair, roof fixed, use any form of transportation or have the desire to have gas, electricity or water delivered to her home. All of these consumptions are delivered by vocational train individuals
08/20/2008
Please, Ms. Babin--
Give me facts over emotion any time. There is a very direct line between young people unsuccessfully seeking employment (you know, the 20 and 30 year old graduates in their parent's basements) and the erosion in a clear understanding of the physical world and the tools to function in it.
At Labor Day time, how about a bit of honor for the folks who fabricate, rivet, bond, and wire the beautiful Boeing fuselages that roll by my school--northwest from Wichita to Seattle for the fitting of wings on the most reliable aircraft in the World? Yes, we need many excellent "behind the desk" engineers to design stuff, but we'll always need a host of those very important folks (the best of whom took woodshop) to bolt and screw our world together, relieving the absolute drudgery of previous generations--and give us a life of great ease: whether that's leak-proof plumbing, smooth roads, strong bridges, cheap clothing, plentiful food or the absolute host of other things that "college graduates" take for granted FAR TOO OFTEN.
From Iowa City, IA, 08/19/2008
Where would this country be without those people who know how to create something with one's own hands?
If society decided to emphasize coupling manual skills with the creative process, we might be pleasantly surprised at the results in the arts, the sciences, business, sports, engineering, medicine, the gross domestic product, and many other areas that do not come to mind. Frank Wilson, the author of "The Hand," submitted that the tight association between brain development and the use of the hand challenges Descartes' dictum of "Cogito, ergo sum" (I think therefore I am). Wilson quotes Antonio Damasio's work in neurology and cognitive neuroscience to suggest a more appropriate assertion for the purpose of the mind in the words on a T-shirt given to him by a jazz musician: "I jam, therefore I am." Damasio argues that the mind exists for the body. [See note 19, on page 324 of "The Hand," 1998.] Henry Clark, born in 1892, was reasonably skilled with his hands as well as his mind. He was the editor of his yearbook in high school, and being a practical, focussed person, decided to return to work with his father after experiencing 3 days of college, which he assessed to have little purpose. Later, based on his experience, insight, organizational skills, and his ability to make things with his hands, he was able to foresee a need for an easy way to get in and out of a shelter for a car, an increasingly popular possession at the time. On October 25, 1938, he was awarded US patent # 2,134,397 for his invention of the Overhead Door. Perhaps both the SAT and ACT should consider a new assessment exam, one which would assess a person's manual skills. I imagine there would be plenty of shop teachers ready and able to help develop it.
From Dixon, IL, 08/19/2008
As a sociology instructor, I discuss the possible risks, standardized tests may have on students...simply because one tests well does not make him/her more suited for college, than one who does not. I would be discouraged by the possibility that the night before a test of this nature my child was sick, could not sleep, or simply stayed up too late and found himself/herself unable to perform well on a test that could determine his/her course structure throughout high school. Determinants of capability should come from observation, from instructors, on everyday work, which actually shows a student’s level of ability and interest.
From Bardstown, KY, 08/19/2008
I find the work to develop test for 8th grade children to be a total waste of time and money. Each of our children were required to take the regular ACT once at the end of the 8th grade and then twice a year from that time forward. This allowed us to track their progress and they became very comfortable with the test. The results were both earned full scholarships to college.
From Evanston, IL, 08/19/2008
As I nodded along in annoyed agreement while listening to this broadcast, the snide comment about woodshop stopped me cold (in agreement with Tom above). Although both of my kids did really well on ACTs, SATS etc without studying or prep tests (the College board would not like that to be common practice) they learned more from working with their hands--either by making music, making pots or turning bowls etc--than they did sitting in many classes or taking standardized tests. In fact woodshop and similar classes would probably go a long way in helping some students stay in school and maybe be motivated to continue their education. One thing (not the only thing) this country lacks is a good system of training highly skilled people who love to work with their hands. The European apprenticeship systems put us to shame.
From Orlando, FL, 08/19/2008
Ouch- I am sure Ms Babin did not mean to imply "Woodshop" is such a bad place to find yourself as a high school student, but I'am afraid she did. Her comment about "directing students to AP classes before they find themselves in "woodshop" hit a nerve. I was very fortunate to have attended a high school with many "shop" course offerings as well as New York State regents tracks. (I graduated in 1975). I have spent my entire working life (almost 35 years) in a woodshop and I am proud of it. Please do not make "shop" a four letter word, it is hard enough to find young, motivated crafts and trades people with basic skills to fill job vacancies. Someone needs to build our houses, build our furniture, repair our cars, design our world. Those people are the ones that do take "shop" classes where they can learn about wonderful, interesting, fulfilling, creative careers. Some of them may even take an AP class, after they brush off the sawdust, of course.
From Morgan Hill, CA, 08/19/2008
Pay the College Board to test 8th graders? Every state has required tests developed at tax-payer expense and administered with exacting care. Schools should be able to use these existing tests to counsel students about future college plans for their students. Save your money, parents, and use the existing tests!
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