Is there a divine hand in the Dow?
We've yet to spot a guy walking around with a sign that says "the end is nigh," but the chatter on Armageddon and Rapture Web sites is heating up. Sean Cole decided it was time to check in with a few "end time economists."
Forest fire (David McNew/Getty Images)
More on The Economy, Wall Street, America's Financial Crisis
Links
- The Rapture Forums Web site
The Rapture Forums Web site
TEXT OF STORY
Kai Ryssdal: There are a couple of phrases that have being thrown around pretty freely over the past couple of weeks. Crash, of course. Recession, sometimes. Financial Armageddon's another popular one. It's a biblical reference. Armageddon is where Jesus and the Antichrist battle it out at the end of world. It's an actual place, in fact. And as it turns out, scripture says financial Armageddon and Armageddon Armageddon might be related. Then again, they might not be. Marketplace's Sean Cole explains.
Sean Cole: When the financial crisis really started to take hold, I got to thinking what I often think in times of crisis: that people who already believe the world is coming to an end must be feeling pretty vindicated right now. So, I went to this Web site called Rapture Forums to check out some of the discussions. This was right after the House voted down the first bail out bill and the Dow tanked. Here are some excerpts:
First comment: People, I find it amazing that it would close 777 points down today. The biblical numbers of perfect completion. I pray we are out of here soon.
Second comment: I say praise God, bring it on!
Third comment: I second your statement to praise God. All this is just bringing us closer to being with Him.
The Rapture, if you're not familiar, is when all of Christ's followers ascend to heaven. This is supposed to happen before, or after depending on who you ask, a seven-year period of great tribulation. The Antichrist enslaves humanity. All sorts of awful things happen. That's a long way off yet, but supposedly we've already entered what's known as the end times. So, I thought I should talk to a couple guys who specialize in what you might call end times economics.
Norm Franz: I believe that the fact that the Dow was down 777 points on the eve of Rosh Hashanah it didn't happen by coincidence.
Norm Franz is the author of "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium." He writes and preaches a lot about the end times from a financial perspective. He says Rosh Hashanah is all about judgment, and two Mondays ago, God brought the gavel down.
Franz: He's saying that this world's financial system is built upon an unrighteous foundation.
Cole: So, it was God speaking to the earth through the stock market?
But in general and in this one case, not all end timers agree on the specifics.Franz: Yes, it was God speaking to the nations that what you're doing is not according to my ways and this is the consequence of your ways.
Wilfred Hahn: It would be difficult to just say that, you know, that is a divine intervention in the Dow Jones.
Wilfred Hahn is the CIO of a wealth management company in British Columbia.
Hahn: Although I believe God does have a sense of humor and he's not above dropping a few hints.
He also publishes the Eternal Value Review--a bi-monthly newsletter about biblical prophecy and money. To him, the crisis is certainly a sign of the times.
Hahn: A sign of the times is very different than meaning prophecy is being fulfilled. But the bible does lay out some clear conditions and events and developments that'll happen inside the tribulation period and very certainly, that will involve financial collapses.
Paradoxically though, the tribulation is also supposed to involve a unified global economy, with a common currency. You might think all of this is crazy, but it's not something these folks made up. It's biblical interpretation. Revelations 13 for instance says no one would be able to buy or sell unless they had the mark of the beast, meaning the Antichrist. Some folks take that to mean we'll all have tiny, scannable credit cards implanted in our skin. And some folks, thus, think that kind of technology is evil. But Wilfred Hahn says it's only the Antichrist that's evil.
Hahn: That individual and groups of individuals working with him will just use the systems that are available to them at that point in time for evil purpose.
Cole: I see. So it's not one world economy per se that's bad, but a bad dude.
Hahn: We're dealing here with the human matters of the heart. What do we worship? Do we worship this late model car that we so love? It being a product of great technology. Or anything else so I think that's the point we really have to differentiate here is where are our hearts and our beliefs.
In other words, technology is fine as long as it doesn't take the place of God. And whether you're a believer or not, maybe now is a good time to ask ourselves what we worship.
I'm Sean Cole with Marketplace.
Comments
Comment | Refresh
From st. louis, MO, 10/23/2008
It is interesting how the word JESUS Chirst and the BIBLE are so offensive to people. Why do you think that is? The bible tells us that there is a right way and a wrong way to live your life. People do not want to hear that. Most people are no longer searching for "TRUTH". Most are making up their own truth. A set day, month, time and moment is already set by God the Father. When the time comes - EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD. All will bow the knee whether they want to or not. Why not make your decision now and choose CHIRST?
10/23/2008
A global economic system will exist. This was unthinkable in the apostle John's day. Yet today, globalists in every level of government are seeking to unite the world. Connecting the world monetarily is crucial to their goal. One man will eventually control all banking and commerce. Remember, this prophecy was penned 2,000 years before our computer-driven society. Yet, until recently, you couldn't have even dreamed how a person could control all commerce. Revelation 13:16-18.
From sulphur springs, TX, 10/17/2008
lyttletyke
10/16/08
I enjoyed the article about divine intervention in the Dow. Especially the interviewer and your comments. True GOD does intervene in many things in society. But,what he does he always shows that it is him doing it. The disaster in the stockmarket to me is purely human error,maybe greed. I don't have enough information to make a good assesment of the problem. To Mr.Hahn I say that you did not tell us if GOD told you he did it. He can speak for himself. So,my opinion is that this is your opinion on what happened. Many of us Christians believe that we are in the end times. So,did they in the book of Acts. And the majority of believers in the days of the disciples. Please read your bibles. To the skeptics that GOD doesn't exist or that we are playing makebelieve games. History and the present prove that the Bible and the Torah are accurate. If there is still skepticism or outrage. Tell it to the anti-christ when he comes to power. And then if you live through that. Tell it to THE LORD JESUS CHRIST when he gets here. And JESUS will be here. When? Look it up in the Bible. It's not hard to understand if your really trying to find out. I know it happened to me when I was a skeptic and didn't believe anything GOD had to say. GOD made it perfectly clear what would happen to me if I stayed in the spiritual state I was in.
I applaude the American Public Media for publishing this article. Anyone think it might have been for divine purposes?
From Miami, FL, 10/16/2008
The idea that the market crash is somehow an indicator that the world is going to end is doubtful at best, but it was a very interesting article. Good Job.
Yes, I bet that Jesus was really ticked off when his stock in the Lehman Brothers tanked...
10/16/2008
The story is great. It's well told and clever. It captures the essence of the kind of real-life Americans that wear Palin T-shirts. I would not last an hour in hell with the people who protest the merits of this story. And I wouldn't last a minute in heaven with the zealots who are already packed for The Rapture. Do Catholics still believe in limbo? Because that's sounding really good to me about now. Well done, Sean Cole. Once again, your story rates Best in Show.
From Seattle, WA, 10/16/2008
Jeff from Wisconsin,
Just because I live in Seattle, that makes me a Seahawks fan? Is that the depth of your intellect? That's like me saying you must own a cheesehead hat just because you live in Wisconsin. I don't like to presume things about people based on arbitrary facts. Just because you believe in an imaginary afterlife, doesn't mean you have the moral high ground, nor does it mean you know anything about me.
From Wausau, WI, 10/16/2008
Ben from Seattle,
You only see the physical temporal world. You are looking out of a vessel that will pass away. The hunk of flesh that hauls you around is not your immortal conscience. When that little domain of your life is done then you will experience reality. Until then you choose to speculate one way. That is you faith. It dictates your behavior. In my book you have the mental disorder. Why you probably think the Seahawks are good football team!
From Somewhere, VA, 10/16/2008
Oooh. Respect! Objectivity! So refreshing! Journalism with capital J.
Thanks for this little bit!
From Jerusalem, PA, 10/15/2008
Hear Oh Earth and Be Silent Before HIM. The World is on the Brink of Economic Collapse... meanwhile Israel a Nation was born in ONE Day. Israel is blosoming as A bride coming down from heaven Adorned for her Husband who is Her Maker. The world is Having Birth pains....But her manchild was born 2000 years ago? Why is She having birth pains..if her Saviour was alread born? Who hath heard of such things... Thus saith the Lord.... Crown him with many crowns... his ways are UNSEARCHABLE and there was the Hiding of his POWER! Haleulia... Amen.
From Seattle, WA, 10/15/2008
Lisa,
You have a mental disorder. My eyes are open enough to see the real world in which we live. Not the fantasy world in which you seem to relish. I'm thankful I'm not one of the fools who are yearning for the so-called End Times, which will only be brought on by moronic, narrow-minded people like you. "God" will have nothing to do with it.
From Jenkintown, PA, 10/15/2008
There are no coincidences with God. He has overcome the world. Jesus is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. No man can go to the Father but by Him. The end is near. Look at what's happening in Isreal!! Ben, Toby - please for your sakes - open up your eyes. Better yet, open up a Bible.
10/15/2008
The comment that somehow biblical interpretation is concrete or simple is pretty laughable.
That's why there are hundreds of denominations out there, with the majority of Christians not professing a Rapture like the people on a forum dedicated to their ideas of a Rapture.
I think any intelligent Christian would be happy with the open explanations given by Wilfred Hahn in the conclusion.
From VA, 10/15/2008
I'll throw in my two cents to say I thought this was an incredibly classy report. 'Report' in the old-school traditional sense of 'here's what people in your world think about an issue, you decide for yourself what you think about it.' The ending was both creative and respectful, acknowledging a piece of wisdom in a faith tradition that is usually a really easy target for sarcasm. My jaw dropped open at the way you chose to finish the story. It neither condoned nor judged the people's viewpoints you were describing, and came across as respectful. That is the kind of classy journalism that keeps me tuned in! Kudos!
From hong kong, 10/15/2008
Very exciting, yes this are signs of the endtimes, Jesus Christ is coming soon.
From IN, 10/15/2008
Let me tell you something Toby G. If you cant see the obvious signs that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24, or if you are one of those who keep saying what your saying just hoping it will go away, then your dead wrong. You need to get to God now. This isnt a waste of time, what your doing is the waste of time. You need to understand that you are not punishing us who have accepted Jesus as our savior by your comments. You are punishing you and if YOU do not get it together, you will be deciding the wrong way for your eternity. There isnt much time left. This goes for all of you who do not believe, or choose for some reason to ignore the signs the bible outlines. We ARE indeed in the endtime. 5 of the 7 trumpets have already blown and you guys are still sitting around worried about the dow jones. You need to be focused on your relationship with Christ and getting right with God and nothing more. If you live once you will die twice, but if you live twice, you will only die once.
From Hong Kong, 10/15/2008
Ever since the U-tube went off the Endtime I have not been able to keep up with anything.
From Fair Oaks, CA, 10/15/2008
I thought this article was very interesting and I was glad NPR aired it. It was the same offbeat but relevant news I have come to expect from NPR, and a truly interesting topic.
I disagree with those commenters who argue that by airing this NPR was endorsing the ideas in the article. NPR was only showing that there are people in the world who believe that the stock market is controlled by divine intervention. It may not be what you and I believe, but isn't it interesting to learn about?
From Seal Beach, CA, 10/14/2008
"The Gospel of Jesus Christ is foolishness to those who are perishing"...
From palmcoast, FL, 10/14/2008
WHATEVER YOU PEOPLE DO DO NOT TAKE THE MARK BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU ARE CONDEMED TO THE PIT'S RIGHT THERE AND THEN..GODLYMAN
From dallas, TX, 10/14/2008
I love this article God is involve in everything, What we see and don"t see a is all created by Him and for Him!!!
From Santa Ana, CA, 10/14/2008
Trying to pick up a few National Enquirer readers as listeners, are you ?
I was incredulous that a (mostly) responsible and intelligent program such as yours would waste precious air time on this amazing two-fer of utter nonsense: combining the entirely coincidental number representing the change in the least meaningful of all market numbers (I won't dignify the DJIA with the word index) with a widely held but quite ridiculous myth (i.e. a Divinity).
Shame on you!
What's next ? How the Bible can help you win the Lottery ? The influence of Aliens in market swings ?
From Seattle, WA, 10/14/2008
You guys must be joking with this story. Why give these religious nut-jobs this kind of air time? It's absolutely ridiculous to think that the current financial crisis has anything to do with God, the Bible or religion. If these morons want to continue to believe this garbage, that's fine, but by giving them a forum to spew this bile, you give them legitimacy.
10/13/2008
Job well done on this article. The point hits home.
10/13/2008
A timely report. Listeners will also find relevant a book, soon to be published, by myself and Evie Levy, entitled How to Profit From the Coming Rapture: Getting Ahead When You're Left Behind.
Steve Levy
10/13/2008
I got a real chuckle out
of this story. Well done.
Fwiw, I can recommend Gary
DeMar's _Last Days Madness_
for an excellent history and
critique of those over the
last two thousand years who've
tried to interpret the Bible via
newspaper headlines.
[Also, fwiw, The Book of
Revelation is singular.]
ofs
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