How about a stimulus plan for Pluto?
None of the experts are doing a particularly good job of predicting how the economy is going to turn out next year. So we sent Mitchell Hartman to check out what astrology has to say about our economic fate.
Astrology wheel (iStockPhoto)
More on The Economy, America's Financial Crisis, Odds And Ends
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TEXT OF STORY
Kai Ryssdal: Seeing as how none of the experts seem to have a real handle on the forces moving this economy, and no one is doing a particularly good job of predicting how it's all going to turn out next year, we figured why not try another prediction racket altogether?We sent Mitchell Hartman from the Entrepreneurship Desk up at Oregon Public Broadcasting out to see what astrology has to say about our economic fates.
[See charts below on the United States, Barack Obama, the Federal Reserve and Timothy Geithner.]
Mitchell Hartman: So, what's going on in the heavens that's moving the economy?
Jonathan David: The big thing right now is Pluto.
That's Jonathan David, president of the Oregon Astrological Association. He says Pluto's a very disruptive force, and it's wreaking havoc everywhere -- from central banks to stock markets. As astrologer Susan Davis explains, what's happened is that Pluto has just entered the constellation Capricorn in the sky.
Susan Davis: Pluto is at 0 degrees Capricorn. The last time that happened was 1776, the American Revolution. The country has a big change coming.
Pluto's move into Capricorn happened during the fall, just around the time Fannie and Freddie and AIG were collapsing. And Pluto moves slowly, so it'll be causing upheaval in Capricorn until 2023. So, is planetary motion a plausible explanation for economic motion? I tested the theory with Jonathan David.
David: Pluto is going to be going significantly through the U.S. chart of the 8th house -- the house of mystery and death and rebirth.
Maybe not. But then I met Dena DeCastro, a very serious counseling astrologer who sees the heavenly bodies as indicators, rather than causes, of events down on earth.
Dena DeCastro: I don't believe that the planets actually make things happen, so much as they reflect a larger order to things.
So, back to Pluto. For 15 years, the powerful little planetoid has been slowly moving through the constellation Sagittarius.
DeCastro: Sagittarius has to do with expansion, with growth. The shadow side of Sagittarius is about overextension, over-optimism.
We know where that got us -- the delusion that home prices would go up forever and everyone getting subprime mortgages then buying Hummers on credit to put in the driveway. By contrast, Capricorn, where Pluto has now arrived . . .
DeCastro: . . . Is about looking at things coldly and starkly and with an awareness of what's real. And in fact, it can be kind of oppressively bleak. It's like the energy of a bubble bursting.
Which made me wonder, how's the astrology business faring in a looming Capricornian depression? Susan Davis sees walk-in customers at the back of a psychic accessories shop in Burbank, Calif. She says a lot of her colleagues are hurting, but she's booked solid. Her secret isn't in the stars -- she's quick and cheap.
Susan Davis: 'Cause I'm just basically a what's-going-to-happen-type person, not what your personality is, or what you're thinking or feeling -- I don't care. I just want to know what's coming in your life. And 15 minutes will do it.
At 20 bucks a pop. To be honest, all this has me feeling a bit guilty. I'm a Capricorn. But, DeCastro says, no, the world needs Capricorn's pay-as-you-go, get-real, stick-to-the-budget discipline right now. Sorry everyone. Party's over. Pluto's in our sign now.
Returning to earth, I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.
ASTROLOGICAL CHARTS
By Dena DeCastro
The United States
The United States' chart is cast for the time and date that many would consider to be the birth of our country, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. The country celebrates its official "birthday" on that date as well. See the United States' chart.
Transiting Pluto is moving into an opposition with the natal Venus in the United States chart. Venus associations are money, physical comfort, and resources. It is in the sign of Cancer, which is concerned with creating security and stability. With Pluto opposing this point currently, and moving into exact opposition with the U.S. Venus throughout 2009, the comfort, stability, and resource base of the country is challenged.
Additionally, transiting Saturn and Uranus are both squaring (making a tensional aspect) to the U.S. Mars in the 7th House in Gemini throughout 2009. This suggests a time in which the country is at a crossroads in terms of foreign relations, and there may be difficulties and tensions regarding the way in which our government applies its force of will (Mars).
There must be caution against sudden moves and impulsive decisions regarding foreign affairs, as the overall mood in this area is one of restlessness and frustration. But this crossroads is an opportunity to approach the global foreign relations scene with a more responsible, disciplined approach than in the past, ultimately gaining back some of the respect that the U.S. has recently lost.
President-Elect Barack Obama
President-Elect Obama's natal Sun, Uranus and Mercury all lie in the sign of Leo, showing an innate gift for taking on a leadership role, and allowing him to be comfortable in the spotlight. See Barack Obama's chart.
Leo also brings with it a passionate creativity that needs to be directed towards visible and measurable outcomes; he is literally energized by seeing his creative ideas come to fruition in ways that can be practically helpful to people.
His natal Mars in Virgo in the 7th House allows him to be careful but assertive in his dealings with others; his style of asserting his will (Mars) is fastidious, with great attention to laying a plan meticulously.
The main transit is currently Pluto opposing his own natal Venus: this echoes the exact transit happening in the United States chart, as Obama's Venus is just 2 degrees apart from the U.S. Venus. Obama's sense of security, comfort and resources are directly challenged at this time, alongside the same issues arising for the country. This transit lasts for him from 2008 to 2011. He will likely be asked to make great sacrifices to his personal comfort during this period, with the ultimate possibility that he can come away from the experience more empowered and stronger than before, having faced many personal fears.
The dark possibility of this time would be for him to cling to comfort and stability and resist the great need for change within the country. Another transit affecting him is the Saturn/Uranus opposition which will contact his Mars in Virgo in the 7th, echoing again a similar transit happening in the U.S. chart.
With Saturn conjunct his Mars in Virgo and Uranus opposing it, he is entering a time of developing discipline under the weight of large burdens, with the potential of achieving many of his goals through a balance of innovation and plain hard work.
The Federal Reserve
The Fed's natal chart, cast for Dec. 13, 1923, has the Sun at 1 degree Capricorn, and Pluto at 0 degrees Cancer. These are important points that are in the early cardinal signs (cardinal signs are Capricorn, Cancer, Aries and Libra). The early degrees of the cardinal signs are being activated by outer-planetary transits over the next several years, with a peak period during the summer of 2010. However, transiting Pluto is already at 0 degrees Capricorn, and by January will be conjunct with the Fed's Sun exactly during the first week of January 2009. See The Fed's chart.
Transiting Pluto is currently opposing the Fed's Pluto as well, and has been in range of both these points since the end of 2007; these transits will be in effect through 2010. The interpretation of Pluto to Sun and Pluto to Pluto contacts would be that the entity undergoing the transit (the Fed) is in a time of complete transformation.
Pluto's force strips away that which is no longer useful, and a time of elimination of the old way of doing things is at hand. In the place of that which is dying off, new structures and foundations can be born. But there is the caution that action must be taken now. The force of these transits should be channeled toward the ultimate betterment of the structure itself, and society. If not, there can be the unpleasant result of unintended and carelessly made arbitrary changes that serve neither the Fed nor the country.
U.S. Treasury Secretary Designate Timothy Geithner
While we do not have a reliable birth time for the nominee for U.S. Treasury secretary, we are able to cast a chart based on his birth date and place, which gives us much of his pertinent information. See Timothy Geithner's chart.
Like Obama, Geithner is a Leo, with his Uranus and Mercury also in Leo. Three planets in Leo indicate the ability to step into a leadership role with confidence. If he lives to his fullest potential, he can have an immense amount of creative energy at his disposal.
Uranus is conjunct to Geithner's Sun, indicating the potential to be an innovative personality in general, someone who can blaze new trails rather than sticking to the status quo. Uranus is also conjunct to Geithner's Mercury, showing that this inventive quality infuses his mental approach: he thinks in terms of what could be groundbreaking, pioneering, and revolutionary. These qualities will be very helpful in terms of the work to be done on the U.S. economy.
His chart also synchs up well with Obama's, indicating that they would have a basic understanding of each others' way of thinking. In terms of transiting planets for Geithner, he will have Pluto square his natal Mars from 2008 to 2011, which could indicate potential power struggles. He will have to work toward asserting himself, using his innate gift of tact and diplomacy, and his sense of inner authority.
Comments
Comment | Refresh
From Owings Mills, MD, 03/03/2009
I really must ask Ms. Eisenberg & Stifter, and Mr. J, have you ever
studied astronomy, or any science? I'm pretty sure of the answer, from
what you write. For centuries, astronomy and the other sciences have
been painstakingly developing methodologies to learn what is true and
what is not about the Universe, and to discern the MECHANISMS of the
interactions among the different forms of matter and energy. You appear
to be oblivious to any of this, as well as to any notion of statistics or
the distinction between coincidence and causality, or even to the meaning
of critical thought based on evidence. You don't even care whether there
could be a mechanism connecting the positions of planets with human events;
in fact, there is none, and that's the difference between science and magic.
To paraphrase the physicist Pauli, astrology is so bad it isn't even
wrong! That is, it is entirely unworthy of scientific attention. It IS
a proper field of study for philosophers, historians, psychologists,
sociologists, anthropologists, and many have. See the journal Skeptical
Inquirer for many studies and references. NO legitimate study has EVER
shown a statistically significant correlation, i.e. beyond pure chance,
between astrological or any other kind of magical predictions, contrary
to Mr. J's blithe statement sans references.
Mr. J goes on to proclaim, "we cannot know the world as it actually is,
but only as we are". Nothing could be further from the truth. Of
course, we always have to be aware that we must necessarily filter our
observations and interpretations through our consciousness, which entails
a risk of bias or misinterpretation; it is precisely to compensate for such
that many aspects of the scientific process have been developed.
Philosophers and historians of science sometimes help to discern
departures from this ideal. Religions and other magical systems such as
astrology, on the other hand, have no such process.
Now, consider some recent revelations of science about the world:
On February 23, 1987, billions of neutrinos from a supernova in the Large
Magellanic Cloud flew through each of our bodies at the speed of light.
Our science had predicted such an event in advance, and managed to detect
19 of them, in huge water tanks in Japan and the US! For even longer, we
have known that most of the atoms in our bodies were synthesized in
generations of stars and supernovae that existed before the Sun.
Comparable developments occur continually on a timescale of less than a decade,
e.g., the identification of cosmic gamma-ray bursts and the discovery of
re-acceleration of the expanding Universe. The other sciences produce
equally dramatic and significant discoveries, e.g. that all life on Earth is
based on the same 14 amino acids and right-handed sugars, and that the genes
of humans and chimpanzees are 99% identical. Currently the DNA of
Neanderthals is being decoded, and some day it may be possible to restore
them to existence. How can anyone say that we cannot learn about the
objective world (the existentialist postulate)? Only through ignorance, it
seems to me. Well, if one places his or her faith in astrology or other magic,
certainly nothing will be learned about the world; however, transferring
that sense of futility to science is a defense mechanism of ignorance.
From North Andover, MA, 02/07/2009
To those who are so vehemently opposed to the possibility that astrology may indeed offer an enlarged perspective, I ask the question, have you studied astrology? Are you making your assessment based on knowledge of astrology or is your opinion pulled out of thin air?
From NJ, 01/16/2009
Just as there is a science and art of medicine, there is a science and art of astrology, and both sciences are always true and correct in the sense that the laws relevant to their spheres of functioning and influence are always followed.
That of course doesn't mean individual practitioners of either can't be wrong or have limited understanding in interpreting a given set of symptoms or symbols.
Astrology is not for everyone and that is perfectly fine, but as a symbolic science it does correlate with world and individual events and developmental themes. Study proves this. How it works cannot be answered except through inner explorations and growth.
For those receptive, the understanding to explore is the subtle teaching that we cannot know the world as it actually is, but only as we are. The outer world as we experience it is a mirror of inner consciousness in other words.
Thanks for presenting this perspective to the public.
01/11/2009
Congratulations to NPR for this story! After reading readers comments I'm shocked at the level of anger and controversy over astrology as a discipline. It has been clear to me for decades that nonbelievers never learn enough about the science to really discover if it works or not, not surprising as it take many, many years to become proficient! Just like anything else results do not come in a semester course or even after a couple of years.
Another point to consider is: Why did astrology survive for more than 2000 years? It began in Babylonian times-- if it had nothing to offer it would have disappeared due to 'lack of interest'. Bottom line is that it can be a useful tool if administered by a competent astrologer.
From Owings Mills, MD, 01/07/2009
Several defenders of astrology have expressed puzzlement or dismay at the
passion of some detractors. Let me try to explain: this particular issue is
ultimately related to the general survival fitness of our species. False
beliefs are never harmless, because they frequently lead to wrong and dangerous
actions. It is truly disheartening to those of us involved in science and/or
education to see adult Americans, even NPR listeners, espousing the complete
and utter nonsense of astrology as if it were a respectable discipline.
On one level, it is an indictment of our educational systems, and on
another, of our progress and our potential as a species. Astrology is an
irrational religion, and since one of the defenders brought Jesus into
the discussion (evidently oblivious to the total incompatibility of the
two), let me say that I regard all religions equally. Since there is not
space here, those who may be interested can read more of my views on that
at another NPR-related site,
http://thisibelieve.org/dsp_ShowEssay.php?lastname=Walborn&uid=8421&start=0
. I heard that some decisions in the Reagan White House were influenced by
astrology. Allah told Bin Laden to attack the US, and God told Bush to attack
Iraq--they said so themselves. Are you reading the current news from the
Middle East? I'll make a prediction based purely on logic and on human
nature, history, and technology, with no need for planetary alignments or
tarot cards: some of the terrorized Palestinian children who survive will
grow up to perpetrate nuclear explosions in Israel and the US. And of
course, we all have the legitimate right to self-defense. There is a
fair chance that our species will not see the 22nd century, because we
have been unable to evolve substantially in our beliefs, attitudes, and
behaviors since we appeared 100,000 years ago, but our technology has
developed to a level capable of destroying our fragile environment and
ourselves. Perhaps the environment can eventually recover sufficiently to
give rise to a more competitive species. Or perhaps that has occurred or
will in some other stellar system; or perhaps not.
01/06/2009
Whether or not one believes that the planets influence what happens here on earth is beside the point. Astrology is an ancient mythology. Like Greek or Roman mythology, it uses archetypes to explain phenomena. However, astrology's language of archetype has continued to develop and adapt to the industrial and post-industrial world.
It's a means of story-telling for goodness sake! Had NPR done a story about the financial meltdown in terms of a Greek tragedy, I doubt listeners would have felt the need post so many negative comments.
I very much enjoyed the piece.
From Portland, OR, 01/06/2009
Thank you NPR. It's about time that astrology be taken seriously. Just as quoted from above, "Dena DeCastro: I don't believe that the planets actually make things happen, so much as they reflect a larger order to things." This piece reflects a larger order. And to the naysayers, how is this hurting you? Why such anger?
01/05/2009
I'd like to comment on the precession of the equinoxes...or the fact that the astrological signs no longer coincide with the constellations...Our culture is very much based on ancient Greece & Rome...this is the time frame that the horoscope was "fixed"...therefore the transits are relevant to us on a cultural basis...in other parts of the world, they use the progressed signs.
01/05/2009
It should be noted that Pluto's transit through Sagittarius (the sign associated with higher education, religion & philosophy) illuminated the hidden sexual misconduct (Plutonian in and of itself) of the Church and much destruction was perpetuated by the excesses of religious fanatics. Pluto tears down walls and misperceptions. Capricorn is about structure, boundaries, laws and manifestation/realization. I found it very interesting that the formation of our laws came about in the last Capricornian Pluto.
From Grants Pass, OR, 01/03/2009
Susan Hunt of Central Coast, CA, 01/02/2009 said:
"Astrology is real, useful and relevant. I commend NPR on the coverage, as well as for shining a light on the narrow-minded."
Ms. Hunt,
There is no evidence at all that astrology has any value or reality, outside of random chance. I have investigated it with an 'open' mind, to see if it had any value. Who would not want the chance to correctly predict the future?
The evidence shows that it does not work. Your definition of 'narrow minded' appears to include those who do not agree with you. So, where are your studies that show that astrology works?
Many investigations, by reputable investigators, have shown many times that astrology is useless in making predictions. It is vague, and makes general predictions that may apply to you. If that makes it of some value to you, then congratulations. I do not need the mutterings of charlatans pushing their cosmic debris (thanks Frank!) on me. I do not have respect or even pity for those who do. This story was useless, and could have been much more interesting, if the reporters had compared the actual predictions of the astrologers and soothsayers to what really happened in the year. I think that they probably had as much chance as anyone of being correct about it.
So here is my prediction for the next year: The market will go up, or down...or maybe stay the same!
JE
From Virginia Beach, VA, 01/02/2009
Sorry, folks, but the recently published tome "Cosmos and Psyche" by Richard Tarnas (who wrote "Passion of the Western Mind") explains in terms even the most skeptical and simple minded can understand about how Astrology REALLY works. The so-called "tests" that claim to have "debunked" astrology were designed by people who had no idea what they were testing nor how to do it. THAT is the scam. Actually, the truth is that when skeptics found that they COULD replicate the astological patterns and applications of Michele Gaugueline (spelling may be off), they were strangely silent and even lied about their results. This was exposed in an article in Fate Magazine by in insider of those tests called "sTarbaby." You can read it at: http://cura.free.fr/xv/14starbb.html Amazing how unprofessional people can be when they are proven wrong.
I might add that the extent of hatred about this is out of bounds. One has to wonder what it's all about.
01/02/2009
To point out the irony in the previous comment, I have quoted parts of it here, substituting only a couple of nouns and a tense or two.
"[The stock market] allows moderately sensible people to make important decisions in their lives based upon completely random chance at the best, and foolishly hopeful advice at the worst.
How many people based their fortune upon what is essentially a giant scam? ... How many people were willing to part with their hard earned cash in the hopes that this could make their lives better?
[And] when they get it all wrong, [the stock market] can't be sued... after all, it's just [a normal way of doing business] that rakes in ridiculous sums of money from those who cannot afford it."
Funny, huh? I suspect there is a lot more data to support these statements when their subject is our current financial paradigm, than when their subject is astrologers, palm readers, and psychics.
Geez, people, who's the real enemy here? It was a very short radio piece done in a light tone. Sure, we're all worried right now, and some are hurting badly. But considering the global economy has been totally screwed up by a bunch of "rational" people who were essentially making guesses about the future, and whom we as a society "believed in," isn't it a bit unfair to attack this station for airing an alternative point of view, whether as satire or in seriousness?
From Australia, 01/02/2009
To all those who follow astrology, thinking it does no harm, you obviously no nothing of Burma and the military junta. Also, look up the "forer effect".
From Ormond Beach, FL, 01/02/2009
I respect the tongue in cheek nature of the story, and I am truly sorry that so many comments are negative, but it should be understood that following astrology is not a message of hope... It is not a predictive science...
Astrology is what allows moderately sensible people to make important decisions in their lives based upon completely random chance at the best, and foolishly hopeful advice at the worst.
My 'negative' comment isn't over the lighthearted reporting, it's over the fact that so many comments still advocate something that has been proven to be utter claptrap. Even the mildly skeptical still offer this article as a line of 'hope', well hope is a good thing, but knowledge will take you much further then hope ever will.
So, perhaps the author of this article was offering a bit of social commentary, perhaps some humor. Good for you, but how many people are right now basing their fortune upon what is essentially a giant scam? How many divorces have occured because some scam artist implied that their superior sources tell them a spouse is cheating? How many people are willing to part with their hard earned cash in the hopes that this can make their lives better?
Why do you think any 'business' thaat deals with astrology, psychics, palmistry or whatever is registered and advertises as entertainment? Because when they get it all wrong, they can't be sued... after all, it's just 'entertainment' that rakes in ridiculous sums of money from those who cannot afford it.
So, we have this huge economic crash going on. Do you really want the leaders in the financial sector to make all their decisions on what is essentially a flip of the coin? No, it's worse then that. The coin you flip wants to get paid too...
01/02/2009
How sad that most of the comments are so negative. You would think people would be more open and interested in something that astrologers have been talking about for a long time--Pluto in Capricorn. Also, Dena DeCastro is a very respected astrologer. Too bad your listeners aren't more open-minded. There is a lot they could learn if they would only open up a little.
From Owings Mills, MD, 01/02/2009
I think the title of the piece clearly betrays APM's tongue firmly in
cheek...
The trouble with Classical Astrologers is that they are mired in the
"knowledge" of centuries past. What they don't want you to know is that
the constellations, beyond being ephemeral alignments of unrelated stars,
don't even coincide anymore with the Houses that bear their names, because of the relentless precession of the Earth's axis. What they don't seem to know
themselves is that the Solar System is a puny object in the revolving suburbs of the Milky Way Galaxy of 200 billion stars. At its Center there lurks a 3-million-solar-mass Black Hole, capturing stars into wild, 1000-mile-per-SECOND orbits before stretching them to pieces and
devouring their remains to increase its mass. At the same time, it flings other stars clear out of the Galaxy at comparable speeds. All this is completely obscured at optical wavelengths by Interstellar Dust.
Soon there will arise a new generation of Infrared and X-Ray Astrologers,
who can discern these far more energetic and physical phenomena, and send
their Classical predecessors into their own recession. What's more, the
nearest Giant Spiral Galaxy to the Milky Way, Andromeda, is headed straight
at us, toward a colossal collision that will eject billions of stars, perhaps
including the Sun, into the wilderness of Intergalactic Space. The rest will merge into a new Giant Elliptical
Galaxy, now with a binary Black
Hole at its center, the components of which will eventually devour each
other, in the process emitting jets of X-ray plasma at near light speed
millions of lightyears into space, obliterating everything in their
paths. These are the true deciders of the fates of Galactic Populations.
The Classicals had better discover the 21st century, before it's too late.
From Central Coast, CA, 01/02/2009
Astrology is real, useful and relevant. I commend NPR on the coverage, as well as for shining a light on the narrow-minded. If you don't believe in the validity of astrology, at least find the willingness to consider it. One way thinking and negative responses to alternative possibilities are non-productive. But then, Jesus had a lot of critics too.
From Central Coast, CA, 01/02/2009
Astrology is real, useful and relevant. I commend NPR on the coverage, as well as for shining a light on the narrow-minded. If you don't believe in the validity of astrology, at least find the willingness to consider it. One way thinking and negative responses to alternative possibilities are non-productive. But then, Jesus had a lot of critics too.
From Spokane, WA, 01/02/2009
I greatly enjoyed your piece on astrology as a means of predicting our economy's actions. I haven't had a good laugh like that since the recession was just just a pup. I was, however, appalled and alarmed that so many supposedly intelligent listeners took it seriously. Then I checked Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy Blog on Discover online, and found out he thought you were serious. He was quite agitated that NPR(later corrected to APM) would stoop to promote astrology as if it were real science. He added a link to your story and asked his readers to contact you and complain. Apparently there are a lot of well-educated sceptics unable to discern sarcasm or satire. I would take the complaints with a grain or three of saly.
01/02/2009
Thanks for this piece. Whether astrology is accurately predictive or not, I don't know, but it is worth doing a piece about, as a complement to other modes of explanation and prediction the media presents us. Such as that from the myriad financial 'experts' who got every single thing wrong up till now.
What I am surprised about is the number of inflamed comments that this piece evoked. The attitude of many of them is closed-minded and puritanical. Imagine this article came out mid last century, and it was about, say, a review of a play that depicted nudity. "Appalled", "disgusted", "disappointed", "be very, very ashamed" would be the exact language I'd expect from conservative listeners easily threatened to defend their world view.
There's a lot out there to be appalled, disgusted, disappointed, and ashamed about in the media. This story, whether you believe its premise or not, is harmless. Where were the "appalled" and "disgusted" when the media, including NPR, was feeding us war-mongering propaganda a few short years ago?
From Brighton, CA, 01/02/2009
Have things become so dire the media are actually trusting in an outmoded and totally useless superstition like astrology for answers? So now the US are leading the way back into the dark ages? So much for the 'noble' art of journalism.
From San Diego, CA, 01/02/2009
I sincerely hope this was merely a fluff piece meant to fill air time, and not an attempt to promote astrology as having any scientific merit. Astrology is pure bunk, and should be treated as nothing more than trite entertainment, akin to the trashy periodicals so preveleant at the supermarket checkstands. So, I pose this question to APM (and NPR)--was this story meant as a serious attempt at validating astrologers and their predictions as a viable and scientifically accurate assessment of our situation(s)? If so, then I need to seriously consider continuing with any future financial support to what I consider an otherwise fine institution.
From Salt Lake City, UT, 01/02/2009
Dear Rob Striker,
All I asked was, "What's more appalling or disappointing?" I'm not advocating anything, I'm just not APPALLED to see things like this, whether tongue-in-cheek or no (the radio version reveals the former to be true), that affirm a collective desire for hope for the future.
From CA, 01/02/2009
Do not talk to astrologers about the economy. You might as well be talking to Mrs. Cleo from the late night tv commercials about who is getting the next bail out. It is a waste of your time. Maybe you meant it to be light hearted, but you wasted your readers time. "stay on earth," and write something useful please?
From CA, 01/01/2009
Kudo's for being creative and allowing the minority who have found plausible study in the field of astrology and also work in the financial fields (I do not apply astrology to my financial practice as some do)to enjoy this bit of intrigue in this area. There are plenty of reasons that astrology has relevance to those who are not looking for quick and easy sound bit explanations. Forget about Jeanne Dixon for a minute. She overstated her case and is being called out for it. But the field has many bright and rational practitioners. All the people who are "appalled" at this should lighten up. And thanks to the correction offered by Alan. I love this stuff.
01/01/2009
Dear Tracey B,
If you're advocating accepting pseudoscientific garbage to provide some 'hope' rather than actually focusing your hope on something useful, please remember that's what got the economy into this mess in the first place.
This article is intellectually dishonest and an example of how to sell your integrity as a journalist.
From Santa Clarita, CA, 01/01/2009
What a sad waste of bandwidth and time. Why on earth are you entertaining this provably false pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo? The slightest bit of critical thinking and research can invalidate this field in a heartbeat, yet you dedicate all this space to it as though it can be taken seriously?
What's that sound? Ah, yes, your credibility whizzing past my ear.
From Menomonee Falls, WI, 01/01/2009
My preceding "Why don't you ..." question was intended (a) to provoke conscious reasoning about why APM or NPR should not do such a thing, not (b) as a request, challenge or dare to actually do it.
From Menomonee Falls, WI, 01/01/2009
Since you decided to present astrology as though it has actual predictive significance, please follow-up with a study of the actual predictive ability of astrologers. That is, compare what they _measurably predicted_ (specific measurable declarative statements, not weasel-words) in the past, about then-future years, to what actually happened in those years.
Remember Jeane Dixon? _After_ President Kennedy's assassination, she promoted herself as having "predicted" it, but when you look at all her "predictions", you find many things that did not happen (e.g., the great USSR-China War shortly after mid-1960s -- why didn't _that_ happen after she predicted it?), but few-to-no predicted "surprising" events that actually did happen after being _specifically_ and _measurably_ predicted.
Astrological predictions are no better than random chance. Why don't you consult a pair of dice to get predictions for the economy, Obama, and so on and then broadcast those "predictions" _before-the-fact_ so that your listeners can check their accuracy (and, BTW, your credibility) later-on?
From port charlotte, FL, 01/01/2009
D.Jack MacConnell
You are an excellent astrologer and have always been so. That PhD in math and astronomy served you well. I notice that the lunar cusp is adjacent to Venus. Does that mean anything in my future? Huh? Since you work with the Hubble, would you look up and check it out. Oops. Are not astronomers and astrologers the same thing? Also, you guys in charge of all the celestial stuff are a bit inconsiderate about your scheduling. Please do not schedule meteor showers at 5AM and lunar eclipses where I must drive to the other end of the state to observe. Anyhows, have a great new year.
Cousin G.
From Salt Lake City, UT, 01/01/2009
Oh, you guys. What's more "appalling" or "disappointing": astrological predictions about a hopeful future for our country, or the rampant corruption and greed that drove some of us to need hope like this?
From Port Angeles, WA, 01/01/2009
Frankly I was appalled by this piece. I think your intention was that it be a somewhat light-hearted way to fill in on a day when the market was closed. Frankly you end up giving way too much credence (anything more than zero is too much) to astrology. Just when I thought the piece was starting to distance itself from craziness "I don't believe that the planets actually make things happen" it end up still endorsing it. This is not what we expect from a news program carried by NPR.
From Grants Pass, OR, 01/01/2009
Be ashamed. Be very, very ashamed. As an astronomy instructor, I have had to counter the nonsense of astrology for many years. To see it presented as having any value at all on my public radio station is terribly disappointing. Why didn't you consult fortune cookies instead? At least you would have had a cookie! This is an abuse of the public airwaves to even suggest that there is any value whatsoever in this ancient discredited hokum. Astrology DOES NOT WORK. You should not give it a public forum, other than to present the evidence of its failure. Shame on you! If this is an example of your abilities as reporters, then you are not doing a good job. Why not look back at the predictions made by astrologers for the year, and see if they were even close? Now that would have had some value.
01/01/2009
What a load of horsepuckey. The writers and editors should be ashamed of themselves for given even the slightest appearance of credibility to superstitious claptrap that is astrology.
From CA, 01/01/2009
I am appalled and disgusted. Astrology presented as credible and treated as an plausible explanation - or indicator - for economic happenings here on Earth? If you were joking, I completely missed it. And how demeaning for Robert Reich, that clear-headed voice of economic reason these past years, to have to follow this mess. Have you lost your sense of reality? Did the National Enquirer hijack your studios? I had no idea that you could even pretend take any this bunk seriously. This not only undermines your reputation for economic competence, but starts to bring into question your rationality.
From Ormond Beach, FL, 01/01/2009
Astrology may be a fun little diversion, a hobby, a pastime... but using it as a reference for the economic woes we are undergoing? I hope I am simply misreading the intent of the article, and if I am, I apologize very sincerely. What I seem to be seeing is an uncritical look at a pseudoscience that as yet has been completely unreliable and unable to stand up to any rigorous testing. I understand that this article is listed under "Odds and Ends" which may give it some leeway, but promoting something that is not only false, but misleading to so many suggestible people throughout the world is not very responsible. Why not find some predictions from before the economic crash?
Sorry about crowding the soapbox, but humankinds greatest strength is also its greatest enemy. Our intelligence is rooted in the ability to find and make patterns. It's a wonderful skill, but the problem is that we are so good at it, we make connections where none exist, and we believe in a causal relationship. That is what astrology is about.
Skeptico provides an excellent summary of how astrology was debunked, with links to the testers, and the published papers skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/02/what_do_you_mea.html
From New York, NY, 01/01/2009
I am incredibly disappointed to hear this credulous and silly story promoting the pseudoscience of Astrology. Usually news agencies give themselves a little wiggle room when they report these things so they can say "oh, we were just fooling around, we don't really believe this stuff," but you guys didn't even do that. Instead, you treat this rubbish seriously. When did you start emulating the worst of Fox news?
From Johnson City, TN, 01/01/2009
This story is a disappointment coming from NPR. There is no causal relationship between events and trends here on Earth and the movements of the planets through the sky.
I know you guys can't be taking this stuff seriously, but it doesn't seem that way from the story.
From Santa Ana, CA, 01/01/2009
This was a joke, right ? Well even then it wasn't particularly funny. I suggest sticking to straight stories.
I agree completely with Jack MacConnell:
this complete nonsense should be left to the pages of the National Enquirer or other such places.
I look to Marketplace for good information about business and investments, not satire, parody, and superstition.
And just to finish off:
the constellations don't really exist. It's only the appearance of patterns in the sky - the stars aren't even the same distance from Earth. And of course, the paths of the planets have nothing at all to do this illusion.
01/01/2009
I echo Mr. McConnell's sentiments. The apparently serious and uncritical style of this piece gives the impression that astrology is a valid source of financial advice. If this were true, there would be no poor astrologers and they could afford to give their work away. Had this been handled with a lighter touch (as done by, say, Cash Peters) or with some discussion of previous success rates with astrological predictions, it would have been a completely different story. Besides, anyone even vaguely familiar with current events could say, "Barack Obama will likely be asked to make great sacrifices to his personal comfort during this period" or that "he is entering a time of developing discipline under the weight of large burdens." He was recently elected President of the United States, after all - if we thought the job was easy and comfortable, there would have been far less drama during the campaign.
From Catonsville, MD, 12/31/2008
I am appalled and very disappointed that you would give airtime to such nonsensical, misleading claptrap as astrology when there are so many real issues re the economy that need serious, adult discussion and analysis. Astrology has been shown to be false and meaningless by double-blind and countless other tests for many decades. Shame on you! Besides, Pluto isn't even a planet anymore.
From Roseville, MI, 12/31/2008
Thank you for this very unexpected feature. As a mundane astrologer myself, I have studied the U.S. and Obama charts extensively, and I applaud the analysis posted here. There's a lot more to say about it all, but suffice to say here that the chart for Obama's inauguration on Jan. 20 is very telling and hopeful. Also, Pluto in the sky will be "returning" to the U.S. natal Pluto (in the house of finances) in 2022; we can certainly expect a major transformation of our financial systems to be in progress at that time. Thanks again for airing this story.
12/31/2008
Resend, : to Mitchell Hartman
Correction to Susan Davis, first pertinent entrance into Capricorn 1763, Stamp act and George III
see earlier e-mail. Thanks for giving us a little exposure...even a Capricorn can consider extra-real explanations...
Alan
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