The fate of comics after newspapers
The convenience of the Web is threatening the potential for full-time newspaper strip comic artists to make a living. John Rabe explores what may be a potential threat to comic artists' careers and what they're doing to stay afloat.
From the comic strip "Frazz" by Jef Mallett (Jef Mallett)
More on Arts - Culture
TEXT OF STORY
Bill Radke: One reason newspapers are in trouble is that you can so happily get your news other places. It's fun to scan the Web for stories. It's easy to, you know, check your stocks on your phone. But there's one part of newspapers that seems to go best with a cup of coffee and some crinkly newsprint, and that is the comics section. Reporter John Rabe wanted to know: What happens to comics if newspapers die?
John Rabe: Jef Mallet draws Frazz -- a sweet, smart comic strip about an elementary school janitor -- out of his home in Lansing, Mich.
Jef Mallett: You dream right from the start that it could be a living. I was able to feel confident enough to go strictly full-time with Frazz after about a year of syndication.
Mallett grew up reading standbys like Peanuts, and now he's making his living drawing a strip that runs in 150 U.S. newspapers. But these days the Detroit News, which runs Frazz, only delivers three days a week, and other papers are shutting down or going online only.
Mallett: Sometimes I worry that they're just so ingrained and associated with ink on newsprint that they're just not going to fit quite as well into wherever newspapers go next.
All comics are already online, but nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job.
Cartoonists are worried. At their annual convention last month, they held a seminar on "The Future of Newspapers and Comics," where Jim Borgman, who draws the strip Zits, heard from a lot of frazzled young artists.
Jim Borgman: Yeah, you may have a syndicated strip. You certainly need to keep a Web site up. You're probably blogging. Some of these guys have like stand-up acts. They're in bands that. you know, somehow cross pollinate with their strip. One guy looked up at me today and said, "You need a staff to do this."
Cartoonist Darrin Bell has chronicled the death of newspapers in his strip, Candorville, and he actually has a tip jar on his Web site. He says the money coming in from the Web -- not just in tips -- is only a quarter of his income as a cartoonist. But he's not worried about comics.
Darrin Bell: Comics have been around basically since the first caveman found the first cave wall.
One thing we're fairly sure cave men didn't draw on cave walls is crossword puzzles. They debuted in newspapers in 1913.
Will Shortz is NPR's Puzzlemaster and editor of the New York Times crossword. He says puzzles will survive in books and online even if newspapers go away, and the economic impact on puzzle makers will be minimal.
Will Shortz: Honestly, most people are making puzzles cause they love it -- they just love the process - and they're anxious to see their names in print. They're not doing it for the money.
Shortz pays his freelancers 200-bucks for a daily puzzle and a thousand for a Sunday puzzle, but since he publishes the work of more than a hundred puzzle makers a year, nobody's making a real living at this except him.
In Los Angeles, I'm John Rabe for Marketplace.
Comments
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07/02/2009
Want to know how to make comics on the web viable? Make it a no-brainer for people to find them. To that end, I suggest the following:
Set up a web site where people can create a "custom comics page", where they can select certain comments they want to read every day. After making their selections they should be given a custom URL where they can see their selected strips with ONE CLICK. Not two clicks, not only after entering a user name and password. They should be able to bookmark the page, click on the bookmark and bam, up comes their selected comics.
Optionally let them select "suggest new comics to me" with a dropdown where they can select, say, between zero and five new comics to preview each day. These would be intelligently picked based on how their selections compare to those of other users - if you subscribe to strips A, B C, and D, and many other users that also subscribe to A, B, C, and D also subscribe to strip E, you'll get strip E in a preview. Each preview would last one week (that is, you'd get to see a full week of a strip before having to decide if you want to read it every day or not) and there should be a single click button to add the strip to your selections. Similarly, every strip should have a button next to it for easy removal, in case you decide you don't like a strip anymore.
Then, the site should offer to send you an IM or a Twitter direct message with a clickable link every day when all of that day's versions of the scripts you've subscribed to have been posted.
The idea is, make it easy to read, easy to make and remove selected strips (and make them all appear on one page), and above all MINIMIZE CLICKING. Assume your readers are lazy bastards who simply will NOT click TWICE to get to anything, and you will be right about a certain percentage (well, maybe not that they are lazy bastards, but that they won't work at getting to their comics). Even in newspapers, publishers know that the comics had better be in roughly the same place every day (often the next to last page of the paper, or of some section) so people can find them easily.
That's a recipe for success. Follow it exactly and it will work. Change ANYTHING and it won't. Require people to enter a username and password and you might was well pour gasoline over the server and light a match, because it's going down in flames!
07/02/2009
Want to know how to make comics on the web viable? Make it a no-brainer for people to find them. To that end, I suggest the following:
Set up a web site where people can create a "custom comics page", where they can select certain comments they want to read every day. After making their selections they should be given a custom URL where they can see their selected strips with ONE CLICK. Not two clicks, not only after entering a user name and password. They should be able to bookmark the page, click on the bookmark and bam, up comes their selected comics.
Optionally let them select "suggest new comics to me" with a dropdown where they can select, say, between zero and five new comics to preview each day. These would be intelligently picked based on how their selections compare to those of other users - if you subscribe to strips A, B C, and D, and many other users that also subscribe to A, B, C, and D also subscribe to strip E, you'll get strip E in a preview. Each preview would last one week (that is, you'd get to see a full week of a strip before having to decide if you want to read it every day or not) and there should be a single click button to add the strip to your selections. Similarly, every strip should have a button next to it for easy removal, in case you decide you don't like a strip anymore.
Then, the site should offer to send you an IM or a Twitter direct message with a clickable link every day when all of that day's versions of the scripts you've subscribed to have been posted.
The idea is, make it easy to read, easy to make and remove selected strips (and make them all appear on one page), and above all MINIMIZE CLICKING. Assume your readers are lazy bastards who simply will NOT click TWICE to get to anything, and you will be right about a certain percentage (well, maybe not that they are lazy bastards, but that they won't work at getting to their comics). Even in newspapers, publishers know that the comics had better be in roughly the same place every day (often the next to last page of the paper, or of some section) so people can find them easily.
That's a recipe for success. Follow it exactly and it will work. Change ANYTHING and it won't. Require people to enter a username and password and you might was well pour gasoline over the server and light a match, because it's going down in flames!
From Birmingham, AL, 06/17/2009
This article is why newspapers are dying: uninformed poor journalism.
Go back to school
From Glendora, CA, 06/10/2009
As one of the few folks to make money through both webcomics and newspaper comics:
Many print comics are owned by the syndicates. It may not be possible for some cartoonists to simply take their work online.
It's not easy to make money in webcomics. There are a lot of success stories listed below, and for every one of them are hundreds that don't. A good comic is necessary for success but not sufficient.
With every one of the webcomics mentioned, there were a few years before they started making money. The only comic I know that was making a noticeable amount of money when it started was Kevin & Kell (which was syndicated to websites, a business model that's no longer viable). If I were a print cartoonist, the idea that I could go online-only and maybe make a living wage in two years would not reassure me.
You won't make money by simply taking your work online. You've got to work on the business and work on the comic. My comics are supported by merchandise, donations, and a wide variety of donor-exclusive content. Other folks have mentioned how they make money, and all the strategies have one thing in common: extra work.
It's not easy to make money in print comics. It's not easy to make money in webcomics either. The only way to do both at once is, pretty much, to be Bill Holbrook.
From Los angeles, CA, 06/10/2009
Candorville was syndicated in 2003. Before that it was a profitable webcomic. Since 1995. In fact, as far as I know it’s the oldest webcomic that made it into syndication and stayed (HSotI was syndicated first but it ended shortly afterward). In 2001 I co-created another feature (Rudy Park) that my partner and I began as a webcomic before we sold it into several magazines and eventually into syndication. So I've made a living online the first half of my career, and since I've been syndicated I've made a living largely from print. So I believe I have some perspective on this weird feud that others might not have.
And it's all BS to me.
I just don’t understand the bad feelings so many self-described “webcartoonists” have against supposed “print cartoonists.” I don't understand it because I don’t believe in those distinctions. Many “Webcartoonists” make an awfully large percentage of their income from PRINT (in the form of book collections and comic books). Nor do I understand the skepticism a lot of “print cartoonists” have toward the Web, because they're all making an increasing percentage of their income from their websites (if they have them), from merchandise bought through their syndicates' websites, from advertising on comics.com and gocomics.com, and from web sales to online publications. Today, before I woke up, my site sold 13 books and signed up six new paying monthly subscribers. On the other hand my syndicate sold my strip into three new papers (and another earlier this month - it's been a good month). Am I a webcartoonist because my site is working for me, or am I a print cartoonist because my syndicate is working for me? Does it matter?
It matters to some. You've got one or two loud-spoken "webcartoonists" who talk others into thinking "print cartoonists" are luddites who hate them all, and you've got one or two syndicated cartoonists who don't view webcomics as anything more than vanity press. But the vast majority, from what I've seen (and that vast majority includes one of the most frequently misinterpreted "print cartoonists") don't agree with either extreme. Why on earth, then, do people pay any attention to the tiny, insignificant number of extremists? So much attention that they'll accuse a busy journalist who barely ever has time to read any cartoons of having some sort of "bias."
We’re all just cartoonists, and this pervasive animosity from people on both "sides" seems like Hatfields & McCoys pointlessness to me.
That said, there is a small distinction, and that distinction is at the heart of all this outrage. I was there at the convention for the entire interview. John Rabe’s interview was about the fate of NEWSPAPER features during a time when it seems newspapers are going under. It wasn’t about the whole universe of cartooning in all its permutations; it was about a specific medium, and how creators whose work appears in that medium were dealing with that medium’s demise. That’s why there was no talk of creators whose features don’t appear in newspapers anyway. That was clear to me, but I can see that it wasn’t clear in the article. So from my perspective, the whole explosion of outrage is based on an unfortunate omission: the article didn’t make it clear exactly who John was talking about.
I agree that it would have been useful to ask the question: why are some indigenous online comics successful and how could syndicated comics adopt those principles? It would've been useful, but even the webcartoonist side of me fails to see how John Rabe's not going there called for all this venom. All it called for IMO was a suggestion that he write a followup article expanding on the original one. That's how this thread began, and it was great. But it quickly degenerated into accusations of bias, laziness, incompetence, and all sorts of other unproductive and unnecessary insults. Everybody needs to chill.
From Los Angeles, CA, 06/09/2009
One of the reasons print cartoonists fear a future without print is that they honestly, genuinely believe that there's no money to be made on the web -- and unfortunately articles like this only reinforce their insecurity that cartooning is "doomed". It's not doomed. Some print cartoonists who can't adapt might be doomed, but the artform (and business of the artform) is thriving online.
The truth is, there are a good three to four dozen cartoonists (possibly twice that) making a living online in just the last few years. It just happens that these are not traditional strips you would find in syndication, so it flies under the radar of journalists who haven't looked past the funny pages.
I myself am making 10-15% more than my old corporate job as a senior creative for Mattel Toys, creating my webcomic "Sheldon", http://www.sheldoncomics.com.
Third-party reporting to that effect from Forbes, should you wish:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/27/couples-relationships-careers-forbes-woman-time-marriage.html
From Chicago, IL, 06/08/2009
I think it's fair to say that this item is just not about webcomics — it's about print comics going to the web. And it IS true that syndicates have not figured out how to make money off comics on the web. The transition of old media to the web has been rocky across the board.
But I do think it's a real omission to ignore webcomics in this discussion. (Hence the angry comments.) But a key thing to note about web cartoonists: they are all free agents. It's very different from being a syndicated cartoonist. They also all started out in web comics.
Telling a print cartoonist to follow the webcomics model is like telling a person with a corporate job that they should be a freelancer. Perhaps they should; perhaps they would make better money that way. But they can be forgiven for not wanting to go that route.
(I speak here as a web cartoonist with a corporate day job that I am about to lose. Without going into more detail, I am sensitive to all sides of this issue.)
From Brattleboro, VT, 06/08/2009
I basically agree with all comments that were stated before me. To repeat it again would be beating a dead horse, but I just had to say that while I absolutely adore Randal Millholland and his amazing comic something positive, I was floored to see that only ONE other person mentioned Least I Could Do!
I have never been more impressed by the way a webcomic has been run then I have with the works of Ryan Sohmer and Lar Desouza. Sohmer has got his business and advertizing down to an artform.
If only other comics would follow in his example.
Any one who has ever seen the LICD booth at a convention alone would be blown away. I remember the New England Webcomics Weekend where at the end of the convention every person in the building was carrying a huge durable free Least I Could Do bag with the web address clearly marked on the side.
Genius, and yet another example of a comic that is still making money, and will be for a long time to come.
- Amber
From Davis, CA, 06/08/2009
Zach Weiner from Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal, checking in. My comic is online-only. www.smbc-comics.com
I make a comparable amount to Mr. Mulholland. I'm about 80% ad revenue and 20% merch right now, and my income has increased during the recession. I have a part time employee, and a business manager, and am read by about a million unique IPs per month.
Yes, we do make a living at this, and there are more of us than you think.
From Jonesboro, AR, 06/08/2009
In addition to all the other comics named, Pete Abram's "Sluggy Freelance" ( http://www.sluggy.com/ ) is currently in year 11 of online publication. Still going strong, and it makes Pete money.
Mr. Rabe, your lack of research and fact checking makes Walter Cronkite weep.
From los angeles, CA, 06/08/2009
I owe Marketplace listeners and fans of the online strips an apology.
I just had a very nice phone conversation with Randal Milholland, who does the online-only strip Something Positive. He told me he was working 40 hrs doing data entry and 40 hrs doing the strip, and when readers complained he was late posting an update or fixing a link, he dared them to support him. Thousands of dollars came in, in $5 and $10 donations, in just a few days, and now, he says, he's making a decent living solely on the web strip. For those who want details, he authorized me to tell you that last year he made $55k before taxes in 2008, roughly a third each from merchandise, donations, and ads.
He also wrote, "and if anyone gripes at you and goes on about reading my comic, tell them I asked them to be nicer. Or I'll find them."
Thanks, for that, Randy, but if I got it wrong, I got it wrong.
-- John Rabe
From Columbus, OH, 06/08/2009
Man, I'm not making a living off my comic? Sweet, that means I don't have to claim my imaginary revenue to the IRS! Thanks, John Rabe!
From nashville, TN, 06/08/2009
Mr. Rabe, et al,
I know of a number of prominent web comics that seem to do well, in my opinion Something Positive is at the top of the pile.
The issue is that, with newspaper, an artist only worried about the comic itself. Nowadays, an artist looks at not just the comic, but also merchandise and typically handles advertising on their comic. Before, the artist sold a strip, now they sell items and ad space.
By taking the direct route, the artist eliminates having to depend on the largese of the newspaper industry.
From nashville, TN, 06/08/2009
Mr. Rabe, et al,
I know of a number of prominent web comics that seem to do well, in my opinion Something Positive is at the top of the pile.
The issue is that, with newspaper, an artist only worried about the comic itself. Nowadays, an artist looks at not just the comic, but also merchandise and typically handles advertising on their comic. Before, the artist sold a strip, now they sell items and ad space.
By taking the direct route, the artist eliminates having to depend on the largese of the newspaper industry.
From NYC, NY, 06/08/2009
Well, many webcomic artists have found a way to pay the rent with their comics and merch alone.
It's definitely the goal I have for my webcomic, Sex Drugs and June Cleaver: http://www.sexdrugsandjunecleaver.com/2008/06/26/inappropriate-sense-of-humor/
06/08/2009
People make money off webcomics today. They aren't all filthy stinking rich, but they can make money for living a decent life from them.....It's just the fact that you need effort.
From Philadelphia, PA, 06/08/2009
This story sounded like it was created in 1996. I expect way more from APM. There are minimally 100 working cartoonists making a very nice living from their comics, which have never ever been in newspapers. Get your facts straight.
06/08/2009
I'd like to point out a little something I haven't seen anyone else mention.
Penny Arcade not only supports the families of Mike Kraulik(Artist) and Jerry Holkins(Writer), both of whom have a Wife and Kid, but PA also has several employees. I only know of Kiko and Robert, there may be more.
Marketplace, I'll write a new article if you guys want. I won't mind correcting this article. In fact, I'll take his job. I may not have a fancy english degree, but it didn't seem to help the author.
From Tel Avi, RI, 06/07/2009
The article should be renamed to "John Rabe has not found a way to make a living after the decline of sub-par newspapers who were desperate to hire him"
From Los Altos, CA, 06/07/2009
Here are a few self sustaining comics, probably already mentioned by now:
Penny Arcade
Megatokyo
Girl Genius
Schlock Mercenary
PvP
Shortpacked!
06/07/2009
I think you should talk to the creators of Penny Arcade before you say "nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
06/07/2009
@Center of the Universe (btw, thanks for the double-post)
I think the problem with the article is that it states something that's clearly false, and then you made it all about you by calling yourself "the Center of the Universe," and then missing the point of why the links were being provided by the posters below and instead talked about your reading habits (thanks...?)
Thanks for trying to get this discussion all about something besides how poorly prepared John Rabe is, though, or the state of cartooning in an age where newspapers are becoming obsolete. You should write a blog!
From Bakersfield, CA, 06/07/2009
I have to agree about the shallow research but what are you going to do in 2 minutes? I think the title was the problem. Should have been "Quick intervirew with JEF MALLETT"
I looked at most of the other commenters links. It's been years since I've read any comics myself. The drama and angst and insider vibe of most of them is a turn off. For me at least. No wonder they don't make it in the main stream. What ever happened to light and silly? http://www.savagechickens.com/ Are the "Too Hip" ones like Penny Arcade the only ones making a living?
From Bakersfield, CA, 06/07/2009
I have to agree about the shallow research but what are you going to do in 2 minutes? I think the title was the problem. Should have been "Quick intervirew with JEF MALLETT"
I looked at most of the other commenters links. It's been years since I've read any comics myself. The drama and angst and insider vibe of most of them is a turn off. For me at least. No wonder they don't make it in the main stream. What ever happened to light and silly? http://www.savagechickens.com/ Are the "Too Hip" ones like Penny Arcade the only ones making a living?
06/07/2009
@Milo:
"If there are more people hawking shirts, isn't it reasonable to think that each merchandiser may see a smaller piece of the pie?"
Your business theory assumes 2 things: that every cartoon strip will be making a near-identical share of cash and that there is a finite consumer pie to be divided. Both of these assumptions are fallacies.
Successful strips such as Penny Arcade or Something Positive aren't likely to see loss in income if Frazz were to go solely online because none of these three comics are competing for the same demographic.
Nor would any of them lose advertisers to the other sites for not only the same reason, but also because the web doesn't operate like television: tuning in to one comic doesn't occur at the expense of tuning in to other comics, as opposed to watching NBC instead of FOX. All can be enjoyed and subscribed to simultaneously.
Furthermore, consumers will continue to consume as long as they find value in their purchase. If a consumer buys a DVD one week, that may hurt the odds of that same consumer buying another DVD the next week. But the odds of it affecting the purchase of a t-shirt or mug are to a much lesser degree. Ultimately, like any other business, comic authors will have to do more than just "hawk t-shirts." Penny Arcade for instance is now host to one of the largest gaming conventions in North America, but on a smaller scale, authors sell signed individual strips, people can bid to be written into a particular day's strip - the possibilities are nearly endless as to how one can market their comic. What dictates how much income an author makes is not how many other comics are out there, but how unique the author's voice is, the quality of their writing from strip-to-strip is, how often they update, if they cultivate a community and fanbase, and how much effort is put into SEOing their work.
So, to answer your question, no, it is not reasonable to think that each merchandiser may see a smaller piece of the pie. It's very kind of you to have tried to fend off the pile-on that the author of this piece (in my opinion, rightfully) has coming, but the truth is that this piece is so poorly researched, so amateurishly executed, and so weakly argued, that it's an exercise in futility attempting to defend it.
From OR, 06/07/2009
Charles Cosper, what you fail to recognize is that's your opinion and your opinion alone. Not fact. I for one enjoy web comics far more than those you usually find printed on paper. For example, they tend to have writing that feels more natural to the reader. No made up swear words to get past the editor, for example.
06/07/2009
"By Charles Cosper
06/07/2009
What all the previous commenters have failed to realize is this:
Webcomics aren't _real_ comics!
It only counts as a comic if somebody prints it in the paper!"
Umm...okay, no.
here we go:
comics
Plural form of comic.
An artistic medium consisting of juxtaposed pictorial and other images in deliberate sequence, intended to convey information and/or to produce an aesthetic response in the viewer (also, comix)
if that does not define webcomics also, then I don't know what does.
06/07/2009
What all the previous commenters have failed to realize is this:
Webcomics aren't _real_ comics!
It only counts as a comic if somebody prints it in the paper!
From AZ, 06/07/2009
John Rube seems to be a more apt monicker for this fellow. What sort of mad world is this that our legitimate online news is being presented by either an absolute luddite or a fellow without the journalistic prowess to fact check? This would almost be laughable, if it weren't so frighteningly telling of the state of journalism.
From Northampton, MA, 06/07/2009
I don't think anyone mentioned these two as successful full-time webcomics artists:
Randy Milholland, "Something Postive", http://somethingpositive.net/
Howard Tayler, "Schlock Mercenary", http://schlockmercenary.com/
Tayler supports his entire family (home-maker wife and I think two children) on his income. If that's not "success," I don't think any print comics artists are successful either.
From Chapel Hill, NC, 06/07/2009
It's worth recognizing, that while there are many self-supporting online webcomics, there are also probably many print comic artists who are understandably worried about losing their main source of income. I think the spirit of the article was well-meaning even if the reporting clearly lacked credibility.
The fact of the matter is, yes, it is possible to make a living using nothing but the web. However, it's worth mentioning that the death of the print comic (alleged death, anyhow) may -- in the short term, at least -- impact a number of very good comics, both in print and on the web. As more strips migrate from print to the web, individual comics may see declines in readership and merchandise sales due to new entries in an already crowded marketplace. How many webcomic t-shirts is the average consumer going to buy during the year? If there are more people hawking shirts, isn't it reasonable to think that each merchandiser may see a smaller piece of the pie?
While I am not forecasting doom and gloom for the webcomic industry as a whole, it's still important to recognize that the money from syndicated print comics is a sizeable piece of the overall income generated by comic strips. The loss of that will have a ripple impact, both on print and web-only comics. I only wish that message hadn't been damaged by a reporter who clearly wasn't in possession of all the facts.
From AZ, 06/07/2009
Not to pile on too much, but this is why newspapers are failing. Blogs are forced to fact-check everything reporters put out because of A) shoddy research, B) blatant lies, and C) overall poor writing and lack of a professional voice.
Congratulations, John Rabe. You're killing an industry, and along with it, the very cartoonists' print careers you were reporting on.
06/07/2009
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=successful+web+comics
06/07/2009
Hi John Rabe, I guess this is a nice piece on comics artists who are failing today. I'd love to see you do a follow-up piece on comics artist who are succeeding wildly.
Here are some of the best:
http://www.achewood.com/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/
http://www.ericmonster.com/
http://www.americanelf.com/
http://dieselsweeties.com/
I can't wait for your sequel!
From Derry, NH, 06/07/2009
This article is absolutely anathema to good journalism. NPR should be ashamed to have published such blatantly ignorant reporting.
John Rabe is obviously either lazy, or heavily biased, and also completely ignorant of how to do basic research. His presence on NPR is shameful and embarassing. He has belittled the successful occupations of many web comics artists while amplifying the pitiful whinging of a scant handful who haven't managed to migrate to the digital world.
From Fairbanks, AK, 06/07/2009
Artists who have found a way to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job:
www.penny-arcade.com
www.questionablecontent.net
www.xkcd.com
www.frozenreality.co.uk/comic/bunny
www.overcompensating.com
www.asofterworld.com
Honestly, I could go on for quite some time.
06/07/2009
I love Marketplace and NPR in particular, including Mr. Rabe here. I understand it's a bit mind blowing for someone who has only ever though of comics as a paper form for super-heroes and slothful cats to consider the internet as a place where comics could really grow. On the other hand, as has been stated before, research makes a good article, and this would have been rejected from my high school English class. There are dozens of self-sufficient webcomics with their own wiki page. It seems lazy, though I can understand why you'd never consider it. Now, I don't think anyone should be fired, but NPR is occasionally a bit slow on the internet. A suggestion: make up for this by publishing an article on the people who make many a living by comics online, including Francesco Marciuliano or the Foglios (who moved from syndicated to both syndicated and online), Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik (or failing that, Dave Malki from Wondermark, Randy Mulholland from Somthing Positive, or Spike from Templar, AZ, all of which are incredibly intelligent and eloquent on this issue), and Joshua Fruhlinger (who makes most his money from metacomics, critiquing the paper industry). NPR is my favorite source for news, but I can't even remember the last time I as asked to comment on something that didn't ask me for my webpage, too. I understand a lot of NPR commenters will find it non-applicable, but even so, it's always a way to buy community and make people feel represented online.
06/07/2009
What a lazy reporter...
06/07/2009
There are tons if cartoonists that have been able to make a living from publishing their cartoons from the internet. Five minutes of research could have told anyone that.
Also, the loss of newspaper comics isn't a tragic loss. With the exception of Frazz, Pearls Before Swine, and Foxtrot (which only appears on Sundays, anyways), every comic in the newspaper deserves to be extinct.
06/07/2009
"nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
What do you call www.penny-arcade.com then? Two guys who make comics full-time, and have even done tons of charity work for kids and gamers alike.
Poor article.
06/07/2009
To risk beating a dead horse here, "All comics are already online, but nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job" is such a ridiculous statement as to clearly illustrate the author's complete and utter failing in publishing this article.
Let me google that for you...
From wyuntung, AK, 06/07/2009
THIS is why newspapers are dying. I am blown away by the fact that you not only chose to write about something you obviously have no clue whatsoever about, but that you also decided not to even attempt to research it. I feel like you literally picked a topic at random, guessed what the answer would be and decided to publish it.
Have you not heard of Fred Gallagher, Randall Munroe, Scott Kurtz, and of course Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik, the two of which have made not only more than you will ever, ever make, but also have started a charity and the one of the largest gaming conventions in the world. You are a despicable person and a shitty, shitty, journalist. Shitty.
From CA, 06/07/2009
What a jaw-droppingly poorly researched piece. I would have at least expected a mention of one of the dozens of successful online comics mentioned above by other commenters--maybe even a sound bite from Scott McCloud, author of "Reinventing Comics"--as a counterpoint to the artists who are complaining about not making money online.
And to be perfectly frank, I find most of the Sunday funnies subset of comics to be rather weak unlikely to survive were it not for having the built-in audience of the newspaper. Go forth, Mr. Rabe, and discover the rich world of comics online. Maybe it'll convince you to have your morning cup of coffee in front of the computer like so many of us already do.
From Sechelt, BC, 06/07/2009
"All comics are already online, but nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
There is an army of online comics that are currently full time, paying jobs for the authors. I myself, have an online comic called Goblins, which is my full time job, supporting myself and my family. I'm simply amazed that a reporter can make a statement like this without even a cursory glance at the internet.
From Pittsburgh, PA, 06/07/2009
"John Rabe wanted to know: What happens to comics if newspapers die?"
John, I've been reading pretty much all my comics online for more than 10 years. And I don't mean hosted versions of printed funnies (though I read those too), I mean online-only comics that have been making their authors money on the web for a decade.
To say you missed the boat here is an enormous understatement. Newspapers could all cease to exist tomorrow and hundreds of thousands of comic fans wouldn't even notice.
From Pittsburgh, PA, 06/07/2009
"John Rabe wanted to know: What happens to comics if newspapers die?"
John, I've been reading pretty much all my comics online for more than 10 years. And I don't mean hosted versions of printed funnies (though I read those too), I mean online-only comics that have been making their authors money on the web for a decade.
To say you missed the boat here is an enormous understatement. Newspapers could all cease to exist tomorrow and hundreds of thousands of comic fans wouldn't even notice.
From Torrington, CT, 06/07/2009
The guys from Penny Arcade and and Tim from CAD do online comics full time. That's what they do. Also Questionable Content creator Jeph J. does his comic five days a week. Check your facts. Webcomics are much more popular and can be a source of actual income.
06/07/2009
So I take it you haven't heard of" PVPOnline.com Penny-arcade.com myextralife.com www.dieselsweeties.com www.cad-comic.com learn the facts before you report.
From Atlanta, GA, 06/07/2009
So a few comic artists QQ'ed to your paper because they haven't broken into online comics or been successful at it and you turn around and apply a blanket statement to the whole industry? Shame...
I won't repeat the lists of successful webcomics here, but properly researching any story is the first rule of good journalism.
06/07/2009
Penny Arcade is doing just fine. It's definitely possible to be a successful webcomic artist.
From Clifton, NJ, 06/07/2009
"nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
Just off the top of my head, there are HijiNKS Ensue by Joel Watson (hijinksensue.com), Girls With Slingshots by Danielle Corsetto (girlswithslingshots.com), PvP by Scott Kurtz (pvponline.com), Ctrl+Alt+Del by Tim Buckley (cad-comic.com), and of course the 800 pound gorilla Penny Arcade by Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik (penny-arcade.com). And those are just the ones that I personally read. The rest of the commenters here list quite a few more, including an entire Wiki page dedicated to exactly that topic. Is it common? No. But saying "nobody's found a way" is simply irresponsible reporting, and easily proven false.
If this is what passes for quality journalism today, it's no wonder so many newspapers are shutting down.
From Roswell, GA, 06/07/2009
Wow...just wow. Everything I wanted to say has already been said. Do your research, sir. I just got back from MoCCA, a convention for hundreds of cartoonists that have found ways to devote their daily lives to delivering quality content at their discretion for their own income, being either completely or mostly self-sufficient. I was able to rub elbows with Richard Stevens, Jeph Jacques, Kate Beaton, Randal Munroe and Meredith Gran, they all seem pretty well off. I mean, at least when they pull out their iPhones and G1's to make a call, they looked like they do pretty well.
From New York, NY, 06/07/2009
Thank you for this poorly-researched article. The comments have been a great source for discovering several excellent online-only webcomics I hadn't been reading.
John Rabe should be fired for poor reporting, however. At the very least, someone should teach him how to use Google to find things (like webcomics) online. Truly, poor reporting like this is an embarassment.
From San Mateo, CA, 06/07/2009
Lots of webcomics have been successful at making money, usually by selling t-shirts, book collections, prints and other merchandise related to the comic. People read and enjoy the free comics, then purchase the associated swag. Seems to work pretty well for Penny Arcade, Megatokyo, Dinosaur Comics, XKCD, The Joy of Tech, Scary Go Round and plenty of others already mentioned here.
I certainly do feel for the print comic authors watching the print sales dwindle, but successful models for making a living off of webcomics have been in place for years now. They need to learn to change with the times. As a side benefit, by not being syndicated, webcomic artists maintain complete ownership of their properties, and therefore stand to make a substantial cut of merchandise sales.
From Issaquah, WA, 06/07/2009
Oh, I miss good reporting, but apparently that went away with newspapers, as well. FYI, internet comics are FAR more successful than newspaper comics ever were. And yes, people even do it for a full time job. Penny-Arcade (www.penny-arcade.com/comic) is perhaps the best example, as they're a good sized company that even hosts a massive gaming exposition every year that is coming up in 3 months. And they do it all for their fans (there are kind of a lot of us!).
From Tulsa, OK, 06/07/2009
Wow. I wish this was intended to be ironic.
I'm honestly flabbergasted. Can there PLEASE be a follow up story that corrects this thing?
06/07/2009
Yep, no one has figures out how to make a living off webcomics. . . www.penny-arcade.com.
www.pvponline.com
Yep, those guys in no way make a lucrative career off their art. Nice research there champ.
From PA, 06/07/2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-sufficient_webcomics
From Southampton, NV, 06/07/2009
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Looks like you're about 10 years too late. In the beginning you might have been right, but now this is so wrong it's unbelievable - there are a tonne of full time webcomic artists. Seriously.
From Southampton, NV, 06/07/2009
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Looks like you're about 10 years too late. In the beginning you might have been right, but now this is so wrong it's unbelievable - there are a tonne of full time webcomic artists. Seriously.
06/07/2009
I read webcomics instead of newspaper comics because i find them more relevant to my taste, sensibilities and interest. Comics have never been a reason for me to actually buy a newspaper -- just a pleasant diversion when I'm done reading the rest of the material.
Webcomics, on the other hand, serve a specific purpose and give a destination for entertainment.
06/07/2009
Web-comics aren't killing newspapers. Awful reporters like John Rabe are killing newspapers. This story is ludicrous and you obviously did not do five minutes of research.
From Cleveland, OH, 06/07/2009
"Nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
Somebody did not do their research. There are dozens of people who make a living on webcomics. Bad reporting isn't helping newspapers survive.
From Binghamton, NY, 06/07/2009
I don't wanna kick you while you're down, man, but Wondermark (www.wondermark.com) by David Malki is also self-sustaining. I hope you don't screw up as badly in your next assignment.
From CA, 06/07/2009
Your a bad reporter for not cover the full story. I read about 15 webcomics in the morning, it's how I like to start my day. For the post I read saying there are not family friendly comics on the web, I recommend Sheldon, a comic who feature a little boy, a duck and a lizard. (the artist/writer quit his job and has been doing this full time for years) http://sheldoncomics.com
And if you'd like to talk to other people, you know, the HUNDREDS of people who are making MORE money now than they would with newspapers and keeping the rights to they're creations btw, some of them wrote a book http://www.pvpstuff.com/howtomawepor.html
I also love podcasts, thank you for showing me one I will never download, because clearly you don't provide more than one side of your stories.
Oh, http://pvpstuff.com/killingnewspapersmtee.html
From Austin, TX, 06/07/2009
I follow most of the webcomics listed above. I also adore "Frazz", having *never* seen it in print! I read it on comics.com (or Yahoocomics.com)! Once I find one I like, I see if it has it's own website, bookmark it, and I have a routine for my morning comics fix. The only place I could find "Sherman's Lagoon" & "Zits" (online) is seattlepi.com, where I also found "Retail". I would love these guys to have their own websites, where *they* get the money. Some have websites for the author, but the dailies are not there (or updated). Up until a year ago, I was buying the paper *just* for the comics, and that was a waste. (I had already seen the headlines/stories on my feeds).
From Olympia, WA, 06/07/2009
"All comics are already online, but nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
Really? What about Scott Kurtz, Kris Staub, Dave Kellett, Brad Guigar, Rich Stevens, Jeph Jacques, Danielle Corsetto, Meredith Gran, and at least a dozen others that started doing their strips after having other full-time jobs while they worked on what they love to do. Each of them has been doing their strip full-time for years successfully. Either you were willfully ignorant of this when you researched for this article or you were only interested in writing an opinion piece. Print cartoonists are afraid of newspapers going away because in them they have a captive audience of readers to support them. They don't want to become webcartoonists because people CHOOSE to read the webstrips they do instead of the newspaper deciding for them. Web-based strips have to find a niche and remain interesting instead of just not upsetting the status quo and putting out the same drek week after week (which is what many, but not all, newspaper strips do). Using the internet to distribute comic strips is not the cash cow that syndication once was, but it's certainly a viable way to make a living if you have the talent.
06/07/2009
There are a handful of webcomics that are successful. Of course, the poster child that represents ALL webcomics and is the most successful is Penny Arcade. Other top strips, Least I Could Do, Ctrl+Alt+Del, Girl Genius are among the best of the best. They break the traditional newspaper comic format. The webcomics that could easily translate well in papers aren't as successful online as the niche comics such as Penny Arcade who found what they are passionate about and the fans found them.
From Sewickley, PA, 06/07/2009
To add to the list, pvponline.com by Scott Kurtz, one of the greater comic geniuses of our time. Do a little research here, Marketplace. Wow.
From Santa Cruz, CA, 06/07/2009
Marketplace is generally a very good show. Once in a while you drop the ball.
This time you didn't even try to catch it. Hopefully this won't become a regular pattern or I'll find another show to listen to.
From Houston, TX, 06/07/2009
You're killing newspapers with your sloppy research, John Rabe et. al.
06/07/2009
Perhaps the newspaper cartoonists should look up a book called "How To Make Webcomics" if they need help getting off the ground.
From Easthampton, MA, 06/05/2009
I'm a cartoonist who has been living off my website for seven years now. No side job except an occasional small freelance gig. I was syndicated nationally from 2007-2008 but had to quit because it was hurting my main business.
I've got at least a dozen close friends who are also surviving off our websites. I'd be happy to follow up if Marketplace want to cover the post-newspaper future of comics!
From Austin, TX, 06/05/2009
It may be the case that no syndicated print comic artist has gone full-time on the web, but that is not to say that nobody has. The problem is that it is nearly impossible to cater to the demands of newspapers while achieving the level of quality maintained by the creators of Achewood, Questionable Content, Penny Arcade, and their ilk.
One problem is that of rigid formatting. Achewood ranges from the standard "3 panels with one punchline at the end" format all the way to 20-panel monster strips. Questionable Content comes out every day in full color, covering enough real estate to take up 1/4 of my newspaper's print comics page.
A second problem is that print comics have to avoid offending a wide audience. Penny Arcade frequently features violence, terrible language, and references to beastiality. Achewood, too, feels free to make use of bad language, sexual innuendo, and drug references. Both strips are genuinely funny to their target audiences, but would provoke a furious letter-writing campaign from the audiences of The Family Circus and Marmaduke on day one.
People aren't going to lose interest in comic strips; they're just going to go to follow them to a less restrictive distribution model. The strips that thrive online are not going to be the same as the strips that do well in the world of print syndication, simply because it's possible to be so much better than that.
From AB, 06/05/2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_self-sufficient_webcomics
From Omaha, NE, 06/05/2009
(following up my previous post)
In fairness, I should say that despite the many success stories to be found on the web, the expectations of the readership tend to be very different in webcomics than in print comics. Successful online humor comics tend to work best by targeting a specific niche or demographic, and don't always play well to a general audience. Successful story-based comics tend to have more complex plots that don't recap events very often, since interested readers can go back and read the archives. In some cases, this can leave a new reader the choice of either trying to read years of material or hoping they can learn enough of what's going on from faq pages to pick up in mid-story.
There are no hard and fast rules that define what will work online, but these are trends that would make turning a successful print comic into a successful webcomic difficult at best. Looking at the local paper's comics pages, I honestly think there might only be 2 or 3 comics I could see working online without significant changes to tone and/or content. The other option would be to try to tap into the post-ironic crowd, who tends to enjoy the comics in the newspaper BECAUSE the jokes are stale, or the plot lines make no sense (See The Comics Curmudgeon at http://joshreads.com/ for examples).
Despite the many online success stories, I can see that from the viewpoint of an established print comic creator, the future is very uncertain.
From Pittsboro, NC, 06/05/2009
To add my voice to the comments, it's by no means impossible to make money on webcomics. While the income from my own webcomic, "Digger," would not keep me afloat by itself, it's been a very significant portion of my income for several years now--and it's a small, weird, not hugely known comic that isn't merchandised to the hilt. It's at least the financial equivalent of having a part-time job. (Most of my living is from art sales, of which the comic is a not-insignificant advertising draw) Other people with greater marketing skills than mine can and do make quite substantial livings wholly off webcomics.
Get with the times, guys! This whole "Can comics actually live on the internet?!" thing got hashed out a good decade ago. (Also, just to avoid future highly dated embarrassment, comics are not just for kids any more, and some of them are even winning literary awards. Please make a note of it.)
From Davis, CA, 06/05/2009
I don't know who John Rabe is, but he needs to work on researching his stories more in the future. Least I Could Do, Ctrl+Alt+Del, Penny Arcade, GU Comics, Questionable Content, xkcd, and a mass of other comics have existed purely online while their creators work on them full-time. Many have released books of their work, a few have had animated shorts made of their comics, and a couple have been picked up for syndication. Many even have a staff that are supported by their comics.
The reference to Borgman hearing from a lot of frazzled artists is ridiculous in its own right. Starting a website and maintaining a comic online is a cheap and easy way to get publicity for a young artist. This can be seen by the thousands of such comics that have sprung up over the years. Not recognizing the power of the internet as a haven for starving artists is ridiculous.
I hope you put in a little more research into your future articles.
From Austin, TX, 06/05/2009
I agree with Ian. How can you overlook Penny Arcade, whose Penny Arcade Expo is the largest video game expo in the US? And their very successful charity, Child's Play? It may be difficult for some comic artists to make it online, but it is by no means impossible and has been done several times, as Ian listed. The comic artists connection with the newspaper seems similar to the musical artists connection with record labels. If you rely on the label to pay you, you can probably get a deal and be moderately successful. If the labels go away and you're forced online, then you will be only as successful as your product is good or appreciated by a niche. If your product is truly valuable, then it will make money for you (through concert tickets for bands or merchandise and books for comics) when you give it away for free. But if your product is not valuable, you won't make it.
From Omaha, NE, 06/05/2009
Two more successful webcomic authors worth looking into for a follow up story:
1) Howard Tayler, creator of Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/), who quit a lucrative job at Novell in 2004 to become a full time cartoonist, after determining he could both support and be closer to his family from turning his (already very popular) webcomic into his full time business.
2) Phil and Kaja Foglio, who moved their Girl Genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/) from a print comic book published quartlerly to an online webcomic updated 3 times a week. In both cases, independently published graphic novels collecting the online comics and other online merchandising are key components of the business model, and both seem to have had considerable success in pursuing this strategy.
From Yakima, WA, 06/05/2009
I agree with the above comment from Ian, and I would add Achewood (http://www.achewood.com/) by Chris Onstad as an example of a self-sustaining webcomic. (Achewood has also had the prestige of being listed as Time Magazines #1 Graphic Novel of 2007, even though it is entirely web-based.)
Also, if you were looking to interview a syndicated comic strip artist who actually understands how the internet works, why didn't you interview the ever so humble Francesco Marciuliano? Marcuiliano writes the syndicated Sally Forth but also maintains his own little gem on an online comic strip, Medium Large (http://mediumlarge.wordpress.com/).
My suggestion, do a follow up interview with Marcuiliano since he is involved in the internet and syndication side of the comics business. (i.e. Talk to someone who knows what they are talking about.)
From Carrboro, NC, 06/05/2009
When I heard this on the radio this morning, I almost choked on my coffee.
"All comics are already online, but nobody's found a way yet to get the web to pay enough so that drawing a strip can stay a full-time job."
Tell that to Penny Arcade (http://pennyarcade.com), PvP (http://pvponline.com/), Diesel Sweeties (http://dieselsweeties.com), Quesionable Content (http://questionablecontent.net/), XKCD (http://xkcd.com), and all the other folks making a living from their webcomics.
In fact, Richard Stevens' Diesel Sweeties was picked up for syndication a couple years back, but he ended up ending the deal to focus on his online strips. You can read more about that here: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/blog/?p=342
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