Conversations From the Corner Office

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Viacom and CBS Chairman Sumner Redstone talks with Kai Ryssdal

KAI RYSSDAL: Sumner Redstone, welcome to the program.

SUMNER REDSTONE: Glad to be here.

RYSSDAL: You are 82-years-old, showing no signs . . .

REDSTONE: I don't know that that's true — that's a scurrilous . . .

RYSSDAL: That's what I heard; I read that somewhere.

REDSTONE: That's a scurrilous rumor. I'm a lot younger than that.

RYSSDAL: Showing no signs, though, of slowing down. What keeps you going?

REDSTONE: Well, first, I love what I'm doing. And I don't want to stop. And then, you know, my life has been about winning. I always said it's not about money, it's about winning. And trying to be number one. And I'm not saying I always have been number one, but I have been obsessively driven to be number one.

That's true in the media business, it's true when I would practice law, it's true when I was working on breaking Japanese codes. I always wanted to be number one. That's the driving force behind me.

RYSSDAL: You can't always win, though. You can't always be number one.

REDSTONE: I didn't say that you could, but you can always try. You can always strive. You can always be driven to be number one. And then, of course, sometimes you will be. Hopefully more often than not.

RYSSDAL: You've been doing this for a long time. And I'm curious, as you start to reach the end of your career . . .

REDSTONE: Pardon me. I haven't reached the end of my career. I work harder today than I have at any time in my life. I go to China; I just got back from Kuwait and Dubai; I travel the world on behalf of Viacom. I'm here, next week I'll be in New York at board meetings of CBS and Viacom — the new Viacom — I don't stop. I'm not at the end of my career. I'd like to think that I'm at the beginning of my career. But certainly no worse than in the middle of my career.

RYSSDAL: Does it make you angry when stupid journalists ask you, "So, Mr. Redstone, how much longer are you going to be around?"

REDSTONE: No. I suppose that I am mortal, but I feel great. I exercise every day. I eat the right foods. I do everything I can to extend my life.

RYSSDAL: How have you been able to stay on top for so long? It has to be more than just trying to be number one. What have you done right?

REDSTONE: I think — well, I'd like to think I have some intellectual capacity. I've learned a lot about the media industry. What have I done right? The first thing I did right was to acquire Viacom. At that time, people were saying that MTV was a fad and Nickelodeon would never make it as a kid's channel, but I saw, then, and I like to think I have some vision — that MTV was not just a music channel, it was a cultural channel. It could travel around the world, and today MTV is in 400 million households around the world. And Nickelodeon, of course, is the number one channel of all channels in the United States. So you have to have the ability to have some vision.

And also I saw, and I coined the phrase, very early, "content is king." And that's a major factor, I think, in the success of the company.

RYSSDAL: What have you done wrong then?

REDSTONE: I don't know, maybe talking to you. No, but seriously. I don't think I've made any major business mistakes. We had a tough time with Blockbuster for a while, as you know. But I don't think it's because we did anything wrong. The industry changed a great deal.

RYSSDAL: You're in a business that values creative talent.

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: People with great imaginations.

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: Are you a creative person, or, are you a good businessman?

REDSTONE: I like to think I'm both creative and a good businessman, but I am very fortunate in that I have two creative geniuses working for me. One is Tom Freston and one is Les Moonves. And I like to think I've got the right people and even the people behind them, their backup team, they're great people. So it makes my life much easier to have people like that.

RYSSDAL: Can one person run a company like Viacom?

REDSTONE: Of course not. And I don't read scripts; I don't devise television shows. The answer is — and I've always done it — to get great people. Throughout the company, give them their head, so to speak. Now if it's a major deal like the recent deal to buy DreamWorks, then I'm heavily involved. I'm heavily involved on strategy matters, but I let the people basically run the company. There's no other way to do it.

RYSSDAL: If they don't do it right, are you a tough guy to work for?

REDSTONE: I think I'm — well, I think I do demand excellence, hard work, competence, but on the other hand, I'm forgiving. Everybody makes a mistake. They make a mistake, I don't discard them, I support them.

RYSSDAL: What do Tom Freston and Les Moonves and all the people who work for them say about you behind your back?

REDSTONE: How do I know? Ask 'em. I think — and I must tell you — I don't work as an employer with an employee. These people are my collaborators. They're my friends. I speak to Tom and Les every day. I've spoken to Les twice today and Tom earlier this morning. We work together as collaborators, we like each other, we're friends, we go out to dinner together — either individually, sometimes the three of us.

RYSSDAL: What's it like to work for you? You've had some falling outs with your number twos — Mel Karmazin comes immediately to mind.

REDSTONE: Do we have to talk about Mel Karmazin? He's not with the company now. Let's talk about the people who are with the company now. I — the only — and by the way, the so-called strife between me and Mel was way overstated. Way, way overstated. We did have a different view of life. I'm a long-term thinker; I'm a long-term strategist. I strive to do what's good for the company in the long-term. Mel was very much concerned with each quarter. So we did have a difference in view. But, I'm not faulting him. Everyone is entitled to their own point of view.

RYSSDAL: How do you stay mentally engaged for the 60-something years you've been in business? Every day, in and out?

REDSTONE: How do I stay mentally engaged? I go to China continually. As a result of my trips to China, I made a deal very recently with CCTV under which Nickelodeon is broadcast to 125 million homes, two hours a day, and that means "SpongeBob" and other programs that fly here fly there. I made a deal with Mr. Li of Shanghai Media whereby we are the only company that's been allowed to have an equity interest in a Chinese company.

I've been recently to Guangzhou, where we have the only branded channel in China, which is MTV China. And recently I went to Changsha, where I met with all the executives there. And only a few months ago, they're all in this house at their request to meet to discuss doing joint ventures with Viacom. I'd say that's — and then only a few weeks ago I went to Kuwait and Dubai, where I met with the royal family in Kuwait and with the crown prince in Dubai who's a friend of mine. So I'm — the way you stay mentally engaged is just stay mentally engaged.

RYSSDAL: So what do you have left to do?

REDSTONE: Keep working. Keep helping — keep planning the strategy, working with Les and Tom to make sure our brands continue to be distributed all over the world, in a multi-linear world. Keep working with them to see how we can drive the businesses successfully. I mean, the recent split in — as you know — the recent split that took place at Viacom was my idea. I had come to the conclusion that, as I say, where the world of the conglomerate was over.

I was one of the first, I think, to recognize the advantage of accumulating assets and getting scale and so on, but the world changed. And my job as a CEO was to adjust to a changing world. And I think I did. Large, as I say, is no larger — large is no longer the name of the game. Today the name of the game is to be nimble, creative, innovative, focused. I think that's what we've created. Two nimble, focused, creative companies under two nimble, highly competitive creative people — Les and Tom.

RYSSDAL: What's going to happen when they get nimble and creative amongst themselves?

REDSTONE: Fine. I would — I'm very competitive, they're very competitive, I would encourage them to compete.

RYSSDAL: How do you know when a conglomerate is too big to be effective? There was something, obviously, that you saw in Viacom, the old Viacom.

REDSTONE: How did I know? Let me give you some ideas. In the years just during CBS, the subscribers of MTV went from 400 million to a billion. It was never reflected in the stock. Not that I would do this only for the stock. But think about that. That kind of enormous growth not reflected in the stock. And CBS had the — became number one in viewership, number one in the major demographics, number one in new shows, number one with best drama, "CSI" new shows, "Without a Trace," "CSI: Miami," "CSI: New York," on and on and on. It was not reflected in the stock.

And then I thought back to the time when Viacom was the fastest growing media company in the world and what was it? It was MTV and Paramount. Let me finish, please. It was MTV and Paramount. And I thought this was the way to unleash the value of both of these groups of assets, companies.

RYSSDAL: Okay. But if the old Viacom can't make it because it was too big and not agile enough, and a start-up in the entertainment business, something like DreamWorks, recently acquired by your company, can't make it either, then what do we do?

REDSTONE: Well, we can make it. We made it as well as we could make it for a long period of time. I've just decided, and Les and Tom agree, and the board of our company agreed, that the way to make it better in the future is to split in two parts. Both have great assets. I mean, Paramount — Paramount and — I mean, MTV and Paramount are certainly a great group of assets. And if you look at the company led by Les, while people focus on the radio, which is slow growing, they should also focus on the outdoor business, which is growing very fast. Television next year with political advertising will grow very fast. The network is doing phenomenally.

And also another advantage is that this will give investors — investors have different objectives. Investors who want growth will go with the — a company led by Freston. Which is MTV, which is — nobody has ever equaled MTV. And Paramount. Investors who want dividends will go with Les' company. However, anyone who thinks that Les' company is not going to grow is making a very big mistake. Les' company will be a growth company. It will not grow as fast, I don't think, but who knows, as Tom's company.

RYSSDAL: What do you think about the latest in entertainment and media in the world, the Web, podcasting — where are you going to go with that?

REDSTONE: I think we're going to go everywhere. We recognize that we're in a multi-linear world. That doesn't mean the old media is no good. It means that it's our mission to drive our brands everywhere in the world and to every platform in the world. There's nothing new about that, but it's become more important recently because of all the new platforms.

RYSSDAL: I'm going to guess as to what your answer might be to this, but where's Viacom going to be in 20 years? Where's CBS going to be?

REDSTONE: Bigger. Bigger. Bigger. And better. Better. Better. And furthermore, at the top of the media industry.

RYSSDAL: Funny; that's exactly what I thought you were going to say.

REDSTONE: Well, I'm glad you — figured it out for yourself. Maybe you don't have to ask me any questions. You can ask them and answer them.

(Laughter)

RYSSDAL: When you flip on the TV in the morning, what do you watch?

REDSTONE: I watch a number of things. I frequently watch CNBC because of the financial news, so I watch that a great deal. And occasionally I watch John Malone's Discovery channels. I have a lot — you know I watch our programs, I watch "Criminal Minds." Occasionally I watch "CSI." I watch — I think last night my wife and I — Paula — watched "CSI: Miami." We watch and like "Without a Trace." That doesn't mean we don't sometimes watch "Desperate Housewives," which is owned by another network, which I will not mention. But I think my tastes are pretty varied.

RYSSDAL: How do you do your business? Every day when you need to get a hold of Tom, you call him on the phone?

REDSTONE: Last night I had dinner with David Geffen, who is part of the DreamWorks — and by the way, when we got DreamWorks, I think we got it for nothing, and I'll explain to you why. Because we were trying to turn Paramount around and we immediately got two pictures — the Woody Allen picture, and "Munich," — and we not only got great assets, we got great people. And they are of course David Geffen, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Sidney. And they have other pictures — "Dream Girls," for example, is coming out soon. That was a DreamWorks picture. It now belongs to us. So I think when you get done weighing up all the assets and weighing the people, we got this company for virtually nothing.

RYSSDAL: You've talked a lot about "acquiring" and "accumulating" and "having." But what I've read about you, though, is that you never thought yourself a materialistic person.

REDSTONE: I'm not. As a matter of fact I do — it may sound strange when you see this house, which is a very nice house, but it's the only thing that I've really bought that has any material value. My whole life I never thought about money. As I said to you before it has not — it's never been with me about money. It's about winning. Building. Creating. Driving ahead. And I'm still the same person. Of course, in the old days, I used to buy my suits off the rack, but then my friends at Viacom said it's not becoming, so now I get better suits.

RYSSDAL: When was the last time you worked for somebody else?

REDSTONE: No, I'm not going to say I work for Paula. The last time I worked for somebody else was when I worked for Reischauer in a mission — in a group whose mission was to break the high-level Japanese codes, diplomatic — which we were successful in doing, which lead to the sinking of the Japanese fleet. Other than that, I've been really working for myself all my life.

RYSSDAL: How does that effect the way you think? The way you make decisions?

REDSTONE: Well, I think if you're working for yourself, you have to be very entrepreneurial both in your activity and in the way you think. And you have to be very competitive, because you're in a world, a big, big world and in a sense you're by yourself until you build a management team. So I would say it brings out the competitive spirit in you and the entrepreneurial spirit.

RYSSDAL: You're a lawyer.

REDSTONE: Yeah. And I practice law every day.

(Laughter)

But it's true. When you run a business day in and day out, you're making decisions that have legal implications. Not only that, being a lawyer is more than practicing law in a courtroom. It's being articulate. It's being able to be rational. It's being able to see what's fair and what's just and what's unfair. All of those are important attributes to any leader in the media industry. So my — I think my legal education has played a big role in the way I think and the way I act.

RYSSDAL: National Amusements — your holding company, I guess, for lack of a better term — is a family-owned enterprise.

REDSTONE: Yes, it is.

RYSSDAL: As is Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. As is — "The New York Times" is controlled by one family, basically. What do you think it is about media and entertainment firms that lend themselves to being family firms?

REDSTONE: I don't think there's anything about that. Not all these firms are family-owned firms. When I look out, I see all of these people like Rupert, like Bob Iger, like Rich Parsons — that's not a family company — not as competitors, really, but as contemporaries. They're all run by — all of these companies are really run by very, very competent people and they're people who are all my friends. So it is not true that they're all family companies, but they're all well led, they wouldn't succeed unless they had good leaders.

RYSSDAL: One of the things that happens when a family controls a business is that you have to figure out what happens when the founder, or the father, or the patriarch is no longer around. How do you figure that out?

REDSTONE: Well, first I'm intending to be around forever, so I can't really answer that question. But naturally you have to build a structure so that if you should by any remote possibility pass away, there are others to take your place.

RYSSDAL: Your son has filed a lawsuit against you — against the company.

REDSTONE: I'm not going to — I don't think that's a subject I want to discuss now. Hold on.

(pause)

Okay, I . . . let me . . . I . . . I . . . if I'm going to comment . . . here's what . . . here's what I would say. I think that I and most agree that the lawsuit has no merit. We issued a statement, which you can get, about our view of the lawsuit and National's view of the lawsuit. That it was a way to extract financial benefit in a family business, and that the suit is without merit. As far as I'm concerned, the main thing is, it's a saddening experience.

RYSSDAL: You're a media businessman. What's it like to have your private life in the public media?

REDSTONE: I don't think anyone likes it. It happens to all of us — Michael Eisner, Rupert Murdoch, now me. It's just part of the . . . part of the life of a media executive.

RYSSDAL: You worked for . . .

REDSTONE: It's part of the risk you have to take to do what I do for a living.

RYSSDAL: You worked for a while with your father.

REDSTONE: Yes, I did.

RYSSDAL: You now work with your daughter.

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: What's it like, how do you separate business from family when you have to make decisions?

REDSTONE: Why do you have to do that? I think one can have a great family life and still be a great businessperson. Hopefully I am, but I don't see any conflict between family and business. There doesn't have to be any. Unfortunately there sometimes is, but there's no reason that it has to be.

RYSSDAL: You're a Harvard-trained . . .

REDSTONE: I mean I get along very well — I thought I got along well with my son, but I certainly get along well with my daughter, and in . . . it . . . there's . . . in a way, it enhances my business experience to be part of a family that's participating in my business. I had hoped that my whole family would someday participate in the business if they show their competence and their commitment.

RYSSDAL: You're a Harvard-trained lawyer.

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: You did cryptography during the Second World War. You worked at the Justice Department.

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: You were a private lawyer. How did all that prepare you when you went into your father's business, which was then, I think, Northeast Amusements, or Entertainment?

REDSTONE: It was. Well, I was practicing law and like a lot of . . . it may sound ridiculous today, but like a lot of young people who practice law, particularly for the government, we really felt we were going to make the world better. It may sound like jargon to you today, but the answer was when I became a partner in a law firm in Washington, and when I came to realize that practicing law was just another business, I decided to go into business for myself.

RYSSDAL: What's next for Sumner Redstone?

REDSTONE: What's next is to get up every day, work hard, work with my collaborators Tom and Les and with their people. One of the things I want to point out is that, like myself, they have great backups. I mean, Brad Gray, Judith McGrath . . . I could go on and name so many of them. We have a great management team, and let me tell you, it's what management brings to the assets, that separates the winners from the losers. And I think that most analysts would agree that there is no better management than the management we have in our company.

RYSSDAL: You're the man who came up with the phrase "content is king."

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: You're the man who built Viacom. You're also now the man who has split up Viacom.

REDSTONE: Yes.

RYSSDAL: And I guess I'm curious as to if big conglomerates and companies are not the wave of the future in the media, what is?

REDSTONE: Just what we're doing. I was, yes, I built . . . I built . . . I built, with the help of others, by the way — obviously with the help of many in management team — I built a great company, and I accumulated a lot of assets, but keep in mind one thing. Look at the assets. The major assets we accumulated were content assets, brands. And I just came to the conclusion for the reasons I gave you that the world had changed, the environment had changed. And that, look, when we acquired CBS I think radio was growing at 26 percent or something like that, and I felt it my responsibility as a CEO, my responsibility, to adjust to a changing environment, and I think that's what I did.

RYSSDAL: I want to get back to . . .

REDSTONE: And I think you'll see other companies now beginning to look at things the same way.

RYSSDAL: Well, let me ask you about that. Time Warner is the one that comes immediately to mind.

REDSTONE: Well, I'm not going to get involved with their dispute with . . . you know, Icahn.

RYSSDAL: Icahn . . . I don't care about that. But what do you think . . .

REDSTONE: But I have . . .

RYSSDAL: . . . what do you think they're going to do? What do you think is smart for them to do?

REDSTONE: I don't — no, I'm not going to — I happen to like Rich Parsons a lot. I think he's a great leader; I think he's done a great job; he inherited a catastrophe. He's working his way out of it. So I'm not going to be one to tell Rich Parsons what to do. That's for him to decide.

RYSSDAL: Tell me about . . .

REDSTONE: I only know what I thought was right, and I do think you will see, without naming them, other companies moving in the same direction, for the same reason. I think, I think you will find — and I don't want to be presumptuous, I don't want to be arrogant — that even in this area we were leaders.

RYSSDAL: Even a guy who spent his whole life trying to be number one, trying to win has to unwind somehow. How do you unwind?

REDSTONE: I go out to dinner. I . . . that's a social experience for me. I play tennis with my wife usually. I have a sports room where I work on a bicycle. I swim. I find exercise is a relief of stress. And I have a nice social life with a lot of friends. Friends and family help you get through the difficult times.

RYSSDAL: I couldn't help but notice in the den over there, the wall-to-wall-to-wall fish tank.

REDSTONE: Well, let me tell you, I think that I may have the largest collection of saltwater fish in the world.

(Laughter)

I went to Hawaii recently . . .

RYSSDAL: Is it a vice with you?

REDSTONE: No, no, let me tell you . . .

RYSSDAL: I'll ask your wife; your wife is nodding.

REDSTONE: No, no. And she's very interested herself. We went to Hawaii recently. We went out in a boat where you could see what was underneath. They didn't have a fraction of the fish that are in my living room. I find — and I'm glad you asked the question because it's part of my — it should have been part of my answer. Watching the fish, they're beautiful as you see, is almost mesmerizing. You know there are studies that have been done that say that people who have fish like that and watch them, their blood pressure goes down. And I can understand it. It's a mesmerizing experience. It tends to relieve stress. So that's part of my life, too.

RYSSDAL: You were very seriously injured in a hotel fire in Boston in 1979.

REDSTONE: Yes, uh-huh.

RYSSDAL: I read somewhere that you have said you really started living after that fire.

REDSTONE: I never said that. People like you say that.

RYSSDAL: No.

REDSTONE: No?

RYSSDAL: I read it; deny it, that's fine.

REDSTONE: No. No, no, it's not true. It was not a seminal event that changed my life in any way. After the fire, I was the same person I was before the fire. If I was driven after, I was driven before. Nothing really changed of my character and my personality or my priorities as a result of that fire.

RYSSDAL: Why Viacom? Why Viacom when you were 59-60 years old?

REDSTONE: Well, I saw motion picture exhibition as a non-growth business.

RYSSDAL: Non-growth?

REDSTONE: Non-growth. It's a good business. It has grown somewhat, but largely as a result of raising admission prices and so on. I saw television — even though I knew so little — I saw television as the growth business of the future, and I was fortunate to see that, and that's what brought me to Viacom. Then called Vee-a-com, by the way.

RYSSDAL: Yeah.

REDSTONE: Because it was a small television company and it had some interesting assets, one of which was MTV, and one of which was Nickelodeon. So I like to think I had the vision to see what could be done in the television industry, particularly with assets like that.

RYSSDAL: When was the last time you watched MTV?

REDSTONE: I watch it occasionally.

RYSSDAL: What do you think?

REDSTONE: Maybe a little too sexy for me. I'm only kidding. No, I like, I like it. I think it's cutting edge. It's irreverent. I don't watch it all the time. You know people think that because you're older than the demographic, you cannot appreciate the demographic. That's not true. I'm fairly, slightly older (laughter) than the MTV demographic and certainly than the Nickelodeon demographic, and still I appreciate the advantages, the beauty of both of those networks.

RYSSDAL: Do you think it's ironic that there's an old white guy running this big media conglomerate?

REDSTONE: An old white guy? I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. First, I don't consider myself old. You know, chronological age is not the true age of any people. I know people who are 20-30 years chronologically younger than I am, who are far older than I am. So let's get rid of the old.

White? I don't think a company has to — well, look — Bob Johnson's a great example of a great entrepreneur who is not white. So one doesn't have to be white. Rich Parsons. So I don't know where you get this old and white, but wherever you get it, throw it back to where you got it from.

RYSSDAL: Sumner Redstone thanks so much for your time.

REDSTONE: I'm glad to do it.

[NOTE: The text above is an extended excerpt of the interview and may have been edited. It should not be taken as a verbatim record.]

	DOW -0.14%
	NASDAQ -0.50%
	S & P 0.00%
Details...